2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
25 members (Keith D Kerman, CaseyVancouver, Kawai James, Brad Ford, bsalad, Gord Webster, George Smith, 6 invisible), 492 guests, and 587 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,904
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,904
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
]He may have meant it only for a specific place in a specific piece. IMO it's not generally true and certainly not at all appropriate at the beginner or intermediate level.


He seems to regard this as a general principle, as he thinks a more interesting line always sounds better. This is probably not great for a beginner, where even playing is a priority.

Last edited by johnstaf; 07/28/19 11:47 AM.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,966
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,966
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by cmb13
Bar lines should be seen but not heard!
I think it's more like: Don't overemphasize the downbeat(which usually does have some emphasis). When listening to a piece the bar lines are usually obvious, so saying they should not be heard is not quite correct IMO,

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by cmb13
Bar lines should be seen but not heard!
I think it's more like: Don't overemphasize the downbeat(which usually does have some emphasis). When listening to a piece the bar lines are usually obvious, so saying they should not be heard is not quite correct IMO,


The downbeat is, well, the downbeat but that is not the ‘bar Line’. The intent of this adage is another way of saying ‘the music should flow through the bar line’


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Animisha #2873457 07/28/19 11:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,489
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,489
No pain, No gain !

If You Aren’t Frustrated, You Aren’t Learning.



“To send light into the darkness of men’s hearts - such is the duty of the artist.”
- Robert Schumann

Serge88 #2873458 07/28/19 11:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,904
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,904
Originally Posted by Serge88
No pain, No gain !

If You Aren’t Frustrated, You Aren’t Learning.



I think just started World War III... grin

dogperson #2873460 07/28/19 12:04 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,802
Silver Level
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Level
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,802
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by cmb13
Bar lines should be seen but not heard!
I think it's more like: Don't overemphasize the downbeat(which usually does have some emphasis). When listening to a piece the bar lines are usually obvious, so saying they should not be heard is not quite correct IMO,

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by cmb13
Bar lines should be seen but not heard!
I think it's more like: Don't overemphasize the downbeat(which usually does have some emphasis). When listening to a piece the bar lines are usually obvious, so saying they should not be heard is not quite correct IMO,


The downbeat is, well, the downbeat but that is not the ‘bar Line’. The intent of this adage is another way of saying ‘the music should flow through the bar line’

Exactly....it's more about not pausing, even minutely (which I tended to do until recently, especially on transition sections).


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

YouTube

Working On
Chopin Nocturne E min
Bach Inventions

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Animisha #2873469 07/28/19 12:29 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,966
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,966
If you sound great in the practice room, you are practicing the wrong thing


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
johnstaf #2873480 07/28/19 12:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 630
P
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 630
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Serge88
No pain, No gain !

If You Aren’t Frustrated, You Aren’t Learning.



I think just started World War III... grin


🤣🤣🤣🤣 all the time...and I keep coming back.


Dream came true : playing the piano
Kawai CS11/Yamaha Arius 161
lessons: 150 hours + counting
Serge88 #2873483 07/28/19 12:52 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,022
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,022
Originally Posted by Serge88
No pain, No gain !

If You Aren’t Frustrated, You Aren’t Learning.



I can't agree with either of these.

When learning, practicing or performing, there should never be any pain!

Progress is not always accompanied with frustration.


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
johnstaf #2873485 07/28/19 12:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,539
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,539
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
He (Perahia) may have meant it only for a specific place in a specific piece. IMO it's not generally true and certainly not at all appropriate at the beginner or intermediate level.


He seems to regard this as a general principle, as he thinks a more interesting line always sounds better. This is probably not great for a beginner, where even playing is a priority.

Perahia is a specialist in Viennese classics, where in general repeated notes shouldn't sound identical, because they belong in a melodic arch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U37SB4i54JU

But....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V7BiWlKrvI (from 40:15)

On the other hand, in devilish music, you want every identical note to sound perfectly identical:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfwcW07yhSo


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
BruceD #2873497 07/28/19 01:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 630
P
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 630
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Serge88
No pain, No gain !

If You Aren’t Frustrated, You Aren’t Learning.



I can't agree with either of these.

When learning, practicing or performing, there should never be any pain!

Progress is not always accompanied with frustration.


In my case: mental frustration/throw in the towel. .i think that is what was meant by the pain, not the physical one.


Dream came true : playing the piano
Kawai CS11/Yamaha Arius 161
lessons: 150 hours + counting
Animisha #2873498 07/28/19 01:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,011
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,011
Enjoy your own journey.


Learner
bennevis #2873502 07/28/19 01:45 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,858
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 29,858
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
He (Perahia) may have meant it only for a specific place in a specific piece. IMO it's not generally true and certainly not at all appropriate at the beginner or intermediate level.


He seems to regard this as a general principle, as he thinks a more interesting line always sounds better. This is probably not great for a beginner, where even playing is a priority.

Perahia is a specialist in Viennese classics, where in general repeated notes shouldn't sound identical, because they belong in a melodic arch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U37SB4i54JU
In that recording I think Uchida sometimes plays two consecutive repeated notes the same and sometimes differently. But I doubt she is really thinking about it when she plays them either the same or different.

I did a little practicing after first reading the idea I commented on in this thread and started looking at places where the notes repeated. Although I was thinking about the melodic line i never was thinking "I'd better not make two adjacent notes that are the same sound the same."

As far as the "melodic arch" in Viennese music you mentioned, to me that seems reasonable for slower music but not particularly relevant for faster passages.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 07/28/19 01:51 PM.
Animisha #2873587 07/28/19 07:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 543
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 543
We should title this thread “Let’s argue about what advice we found to be valuable”. Much more accurate.

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
Originally Posted by sara elizabeth
We should title this thread “Let’s argue about what advice we found to be valuable”. Much more accurate.


smile



[Linked Image]
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,011
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,011
Originally Posted by sara elizabeth
We should title this thread “Let’s argue about what advice we found to be valuable”. Much more accurate.


Isn't that actually the name for the entire internet?


Learner
Animisha #2873883 07/29/19 05:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 630
P
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 630
Moving this back to the original request:

Leaving a piece for even a day makes a huge difference. The brain isn’t tired of slugging through it, and you are approaching it with relaxed form and fresh eyes.


Dream came true : playing the piano
Kawai CS11/Yamaha Arius 161
lessons: 150 hours + counting
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,011
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,011
Originally Posted by Pianoperformance
Moving this back to the original request:

Leaving a piece for even a day makes a huge difference. The brain isn’t tired of slugging through it, and you are approaching it with relaxed form and fresh eyes.


For most people, there is evidence that the brain keeps working away at the problem while we're doing something else, especially if we are healthy and eating and sleeping well.


Learner
Animisha #2873926 07/29/19 07:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,313
M
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,313
Here's another:

Music theory is something you *do*, so study it while playing a piece that exhibits the new concept you are trying to learn (vs study and drill a bunch of theory outside of hearing the result).


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Animisha #2873959 07/29/19 09:21 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,966
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,966
Here’s another:

If you think you are practicing slow enough, slow down even more.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
rocket88 #2873965 07/29/19 09:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,710
Originally Posted by rocket88
Originally Posted by dogperson
Here’s another:

If you think you are practicing slow enough, slow down even more.



Yes and yes!.

Nobody goes too slow when learning, both slow in tempo and slow in waiting for the brain to mold itself around the new. Nobody. Not even me sometimes. Its a human condition thing.


Excellent point.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
KORG SP170S PANEL REMOVAL?
by Prof. Piano - 05/11/21 11:59 PM
KORG SP170S PANEL REMOVAL?
by Prof. Piano - 05/11/21 11:50 PM
WTC C-maj fugue (bk 1) analysis question
by hawgdriver - 05/11/21 10:55 PM
DP model numbers and years sold?
by ObtuseMoose - 05/11/21 10:45 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,875
Posts3,092,479
Members101,481
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5