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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
]He may have meant it only for a specific place in a specific piece. IMO it's not generally true and certainly not at all appropriate at the beginner or intermediate level.


He seems to regard this as a general principle, as he thinks a more interesting line always sounds better. This is probably not great for a beginner, where even playing is a priority.

Last edited by johnstaf; 07/28/19 11:47 AM.
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by cmb13
Bar lines should be seen but not heard!
I think it's more like: Don't overemphasize the downbeat(which usually does have some emphasis). When listening to a piece the bar lines are usually obvious, so saying they should not be heard is not quite correct IMO,

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by cmb13
Bar lines should be seen but not heard!
I think it's more like: Don't overemphasize the downbeat(which usually does have some emphasis). When listening to a piece the bar lines are usually obvious, so saying they should not be heard is not quite correct IMO,


The downbeat is, well, the downbeat but that is not the ‘bar Line’. The intent of this adage is another way of saying ‘the music should flow through the bar line’


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Animisha #2873457 07/28/19 11:55 AM
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No pain, No gain !

If You Aren’t Frustrated, You Aren’t Learning.



“To send light into the darkness of men’s hearts - such is the duty of the artist.”
- Robert Schumann

Serge88 #2873458 07/28/19 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Serge88
No pain, No gain !

If You Aren’t Frustrated, You Aren’t Learning.



I think just started World War III... grin

dogperson #2873460 07/28/19 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by cmb13
Bar lines should be seen but not heard!
I think it's more like: Don't overemphasize the downbeat(which usually does have some emphasis). When listening to a piece the bar lines are usually obvious, so saying they should not be heard is not quite correct IMO,

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by cmb13
Bar lines should be seen but not heard!
I think it's more like: Don't overemphasize the downbeat(which usually does have some emphasis). When listening to a piece the bar lines are usually obvious, so saying they should not be heard is not quite correct IMO,


The downbeat is, well, the downbeat but that is not the ‘bar Line’. The intent of this adage is another way of saying ‘the music should flow through the bar line’

Exactly....it's more about not pausing, even minutely (which I tended to do until recently, especially on transition sections).


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Animisha #2873469 07/28/19 12:29 PM
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If you sound great in the practice room, you are practicing the wrong thing


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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johnstaf #2873480 07/28/19 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Serge88
No pain, No gain !

If You Aren’t Frustrated, You Aren’t Learning.



I think just started World War III... grin


🤣🤣🤣🤣 all the time...and I keep coming back.


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Serge88 #2873483 07/28/19 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Serge88
No pain, No gain !

If You Aren’t Frustrated, You Aren’t Learning.



I can't agree with either of these.

When learning, practicing or performing, there should never be any pain!

Progress is not always accompanied with frustration.


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johnstaf #2873485 07/28/19 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
He (Perahia) may have meant it only for a specific place in a specific piece. IMO it's not generally true and certainly not at all appropriate at the beginner or intermediate level.


He seems to regard this as a general principle, as he thinks a more interesting line always sounds better. This is probably not great for a beginner, where even playing is a priority.

Perahia is a specialist in Viennese classics, where in general repeated notes shouldn't sound identical, because they belong in a melodic arch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U37SB4i54JU

But....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V7BiWlKrvI (from 40:15)

On the other hand, in devilish music, you want every identical note to sound perfectly identical:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfwcW07yhSo


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BruceD #2873497 07/28/19 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Serge88
No pain, No gain !

If You Aren’t Frustrated, You Aren’t Learning.



I can't agree with either of these.

When learning, practicing or performing, there should never be any pain!

Progress is not always accompanied with frustration.


In my case: mental frustration/throw in the towel. .i think that is what was meant by the pain, not the physical one.


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Animisha #2873498 07/28/19 01:30 PM
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Enjoy your own journey.


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bennevis #2873502 07/28/19 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
He (Perahia) may have meant it only for a specific place in a specific piece. IMO it's not generally true and certainly not at all appropriate at the beginner or intermediate level.


He seems to regard this as a general principle, as he thinks a more interesting line always sounds better. This is probably not great for a beginner, where even playing is a priority.

Perahia is a specialist in Viennese classics, where in general repeated notes shouldn't sound identical, because they belong in a melodic arch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U37SB4i54JU
In that recording I think Uchida sometimes plays two consecutive repeated notes the same and sometimes differently. But I doubt she is really thinking about it when she plays them either the same or different.

I did a little practicing after first reading the idea I commented on in this thread and started looking at places where the notes repeated. Although I was thinking about the melodic line i never was thinking "I'd better not make two adjacent notes that are the same sound the same."

As far as the "melodic arch" in Viennese music you mentioned, to me that seems reasonable for slower music but not particularly relevant for faster passages.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 07/28/19 01:51 PM.
Animisha #2873587 07/28/19 07:24 PM
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We should title this thread “Let’s argue about what advice we found to be valuable”. Much more accurate.

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Originally Posted by sara elizabeth
We should title this thread “Let’s argue about what advice we found to be valuable”. Much more accurate.


smile



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Originally Posted by sara elizabeth
We should title this thread “Let’s argue about what advice we found to be valuable”. Much more accurate.


Isn't that actually the name for the entire internet?


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Moving this back to the original request:

Leaving a piece for even a day makes a huge difference. The brain isn’t tired of slugging through it, and you are approaching it with relaxed form and fresh eyes.


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Originally Posted by Pianoperformance
Moving this back to the original request:

Leaving a piece for even a day makes a huge difference. The brain isn’t tired of slugging through it, and you are approaching it with relaxed form and fresh eyes.


For most people, there is evidence that the brain keeps working away at the problem while we're doing something else, especially if we are healthy and eating and sleeping well.


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Here's another:

Music theory is something you *do*, so study it while playing a piece that exhibits the new concept you are trying to learn (vs study and drill a bunch of theory outside of hearing the result).


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Here’s another:

If you think you are practicing slow enough, slow down even more.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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rocket88 #2873965 07/29/19 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rocket88
Originally Posted by dogperson
Here’s another:

If you think you are practicing slow enough, slow down even more.



Yes and yes!.

Nobody goes too slow when learning, both slow in tempo and slow in waiting for the brain to mold itself around the new. Nobody. Not even me sometimes. Its a human condition thing.


Excellent point.

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