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Originally Posted by Ojustaboo
The PX-S1000 uses a different two sensor keybed, but according to this review it works just as well as, if not better than their tri sensor ones.

That phrasing may be a bit misleading. Yes, the reviewer feels that "this two-sensor action is as good, if not better than the three-sensor actions available on previous Privia keyboards"... but your re-phrase seems to imply that he thinks it "works just as well" as the previous action in behaving like a three-sensor action, which isn't what he said. Rather, I believe he is saying that the action taken as a whole is as good or better than the previous generation. Plenty of other two-sensor boards over the years have been as good or better than some three sensor boards. Not at three sensor behavior, but at in terms of the overall playing experience. The new Casio may use software to better simulate 3-sensor behavior than what other 2 sensor boards can do, but they still don't behave exactly as 3-sensor boards. (Though again, I don't think that is a particularly necessary feature for most people, either.)

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Originally Posted by jamiecw
Originally Posted by Ojustaboo
[quote=rmns2bseen] I think many of us remember the toy pianos Casio released in the past, and can’t get over it.
.....
While I can understand very experienced players wanting the best, I do feel there’s a little unfair snobbery against Casio.


The only snobbery would come from people who never tried a lot of pianos, have little to no experience and make statements because of hearsay.

Not true in my case, I never grew up on keyboards and have no reason to be snobbish or bias at Casio (I even bought one having liked it at the store and regretted it later, an AP470, good value for the price range but ultimately failed to live up the hype). I simply call it how I see it, and I see that Yamaha, Roland and Kawai (at least the mid-range and above models) are just better (in both sound and action) - I wish people could also accept this rather than just spout out snobbery bias...


This I think comes to down to personal preference.

I have the Casio AP-470 and am looking to replace it, but I'm looking to spend a lot more money because I don't think anything in its price range will provide what I want.

I think the sound generator of both Kawai and Yamaha at the similar price point to the AP-470 are better, but I think the speakers and amplifier in the AP-470 are better and better matched to the quality of the sound. The Kawai I had at home before the AP-470 could not deal with the space I had. Speakers and amplifier were too weak and speakers were downward facing. In terms of final sound I think the Casio compared to say the Yamaha Arius models and Kawai KDP series and the CN27 has a better sound.

My biggest problem with the AP-470 is though the key-action feels ok. It has really short pivot length and that for me is the deal breaker. I also find the action to be too light, there is too little resistance to creating high velocities when playing. I have found setting the key touch to hard has helped but it is not a complete solution to the light touch problem and does nothing to fix the short pivot length. So the action feels good to play except near the fallboard but is limiting at being able to control dynamics.

So to me, I don't feel that at the price point the AP-470 it is a bad DP compared to equivalents, I just can't get everything I want from a digital piano at that price point and so must spend more money.

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The last time I have tried a Casio tri-sensor keyboard (PX160?), I feel the keys to be very light : they nearly get down with no weight.

The GPxxx series has a better keyboard, but not as good as the N1X like the “hybrid” marketing tag should imply.


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Casio were for some time the cheapest possible digital pianos with acceptable action (and unacceptable sound but you can use VST-s). However there are now other entry level digital pianos in the same price range with better action and better sound.

It's a matter of personal taste, but I think the PX-870 is better than the YDP-144 or the KDP-110. The first sentence there is probably the reason for most "anti-Casio bias". Casio is known for "cheap" but solid electronics. Kawai and Yamaha are known as acoustic piano makers. Ergo, Kawai and Yamaha are going to be better in every way. So much that goes into judging whatever musical instrument is fraught with subjectivity. I will grant that the Kawai and Yamaha "entry level" models do look a bit better, but that's just about it. In my opinion. Now, when you go further up in price range and complexity, that's a completely different story.

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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Casio were for some time the cheapest possible digital pianos with acceptable action (and unacceptable sound but you can use VST-s). However there are now other entry level digital pianos in the same price range with better action and better sound.

It's a matter of personal taste, but I think the PX-870 is better than the YDP-144 or the KDP-110. The first sentence there is probably the reason for most "anti-Casio bias". Casio is known for "cheap" but solid electronics. Kawai and Yamaha are known as acoustic piano makers. Ergo, Kawai and Yamaha are going to be better in every way. So much that goes into judging whatever musical instrument is fraught with subjectivity. I will grant that the Kawai and Yamaha "entry level" models do look a bit better, but that's just about it. In my opinion.


Just shortlist the models for your budget and head to the store to test the models. You'll find out how those models fair for your personal needs and the question of which is best will resolve itself.

Every manufacturer creates instruments according to a strategy for which they think they can compete well from. It's what suits you that counts!


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Originally Posted by Doug M.

Just shortlist the models for your budget and head to the store to test the models. You'll find out how those models fair for your personal needs and the question of which is best will resolve itself.

Every manufacturer creates instruments according to a strategy for which they think they can compete well from. It's what suits you that counts!

Yes, exactly. I think ultimately what I'm trying to say is that *in my opinion* there's not much difference at the "economy" end of the DP spectrum. As you go to the higher end of that spectrum though I think the differences become more marked, and that's where Yamaha, Roland and Kawai rule the roost.

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Ojustaboo
The PX-S1000 uses a different two sensor keybed, but according to this review it works just as well as, if not better than their tri sensor ones.

That phrasing may be a bit misleading. Yes, the reviewer feels that "this two-sensor action is as good, if not better than the three-sensor actions available on previous Privia keyboards"... but your re-phrase seems to imply that he thinks it "works just as well" as the previous action in behaving like a three-sensor action, which isn't what he said. Rather, I believe he is saying that the action taken as a whole is as good or better than the previous generation. Plenty of other two-sensor boards over the years have been as good or better than some three sensor boards. Not at three sensor behavior, but at in terms of the overall playing experience. The new Casio may use software to better simulate 3-sensor behavior than what other 2 sensor boards can do, but they still don't behave exactly as 3-sensor boards. (Though again, I don't think that is a particularly necessary feature for most people, either.)


Wasn’t my intention to rephrase.

Their exact wording is

Quote

During play, I found that this two-sensor action is as good, if not better than the three-sensor actions available on previous Privia keyboards.


I said

Quote

but according to this review it works just as well as, if not better than their tri sensor ones.


While I understand what you are saying, to me, my phrasing and theirs both say the same thing


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Originally Posted by jamiecw
Originally Posted by Ojustaboo
[quote=rmns2bseen] I think many of us remember the toy pianos Casio released in the past, and can’t get over it.
.....
While I can understand very experienced players wanting the best, I do feel there’s a little unfair snobbery against Casio.


The only snobbery would come from people who never tried a lot of pianos, have little to no experience and make statements because of hearsay.

Not true in my case, I never grew up on keyboards and have no reason to be snobbish or bias at Casio (I even bought one having liked it at the store and regretted it later, an AP470, good value for the price range but ultimately failed to live up the hype). I simply call it how I see it, and I see that Yamaha, Roland and Kawai (at least the mid-range and above models) are just better (in both sound and action) - I wish people could also accept this rather than just spout out snobbery bias...


While I don’t doubt your opinion of Casio’s, you may have valid reasons for disliking them, I still think many others hear the Casio name and automatically look for something to write them off.

The place I bought mine from, Cookes pianos in Norwich, have tons of pianos in their shop, loads of acoustics of various types and loads of digitals. they’re not at all pushy and give frank and honest opinions of their products. The guy that sold me mine has worked there for decades, he, like you, said that when it comes to mid range, kawai, Yamaha etc is the only way to go. He also remembered me buying my Kawai MP10 there.

I tried the kawai (can’t remember the model) and he did say that in his opinion it was better than the Casio, but it was also something like £500 more. He said that a few years previous he would never ever recommend a Casio, but their latest models are very able and would happily suit most beginners for quite a few years. He too said that if you mention Casio to most pianists, they screw their noses up based on Casio’s older offerings etc (my words, but was along those lines)

Had I had the extra cash spare, I more than likely would have gone the Kawai route (again based on bias), that said, I don’t think the Kawai felt £500 more (hope that makes sense).

I am happy with my Casio, no it’s not perfect, but neither are half the acoustics in use out there. I sort of get a little peeved when the only piano I could afford, a piano that has good response for me, is written off by many.

I also suffer from bad arthritis, locking fingers etc and find it easier to play than my MP10 was. That probably adds to my preference of Casios lighter key bed.


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Originally Posted by Ojustaboo

...

Had I had the extra cash spare, I more than likely would have gone the Kawai route (again based on bias), that said, I don’t think the Kawai felt £500 more (hope that makes sense).

I am happy with my Casio, no it’s not perfect, but neither are half the acoustics in use out there. I sort of get a little peeved when the only piano I could afford, a piano that has good response for me, is written off by many. ...

Eggggzackly. That makes perfect sense, and it's exactly what I was thinking when I opted for the Casio. To be honest though it doesn't bother me in the least if people "look down on" Casios. What's a little irritating is to hear that "brand bias" doesn't exist and that it's somehow self-evident that Kawais and Yamahas are inherently superior in the sub-$2k digital market. With all due respect, that's hogwash.

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Originally Posted by Ojustaboo
Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
By the way, if I'm not mistaken all the Privia series models have essentially the same action. The PX-S1000 is described as being tri-sensor.


The PX-S1000 uses a different two sensor keybed, but according to this review it works just as well as, if not better than their tri sensor ones.

https://www.pianodreamers.com/casio-px-s1000-review/


Incidentally I have to admit I got that completely wrong. Not the first time. Reading the descriptions it sounds interesting. The action on the px-870 *is* on the noisy side, but not really a problem. But the 25 lbs total weight is what I'd really like, comparatively. Oh well, if I had $600 to burn I'd get one, probably...but I don't. laugh I'm content with what I have.

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
The difference between 2-sensor and 3-sensor is unimportant for a new player (and even most advanced players, IMO). Insisting on 3-sensor is like insisting that you must have a grand piano, an upright won't do. I make that comparison specifically because grands have the equivalent of a DP's 3-sensor functionality, while uprights behave more like 2-sensor DPs... the point being that, when it comes to acoustics, far more people play uprights than grands, and are very happy with them, even if they are advanced players. And there are certainly some 2-sensor DPs that I think most would agree are far better than some other 3-sensor DPs. It's just not all that important, especially for a new player. Or to extend your car analogy, it's like someone who has never driven before choosing a car because it has a 6-speed manual transmission instead of a 5-speed. In the list of top ten things to care about, it wouldn't even make the list.

p.s. -- this is not meant to denigrate whatever Casio is doing with their new action, which I haven't tried yet, and might play better regardless of how successfully it does or does not emulate the behavior associated with 3 sensors.

That is another key information I need .

In my country Kawai es110 is cheaper than casio px-s1000 around 100 buck .
Casio px-s1000 with stand ~ 681 $
Kawai es110 with stand ~ 564 $

As I read all other comment .Kawai es110 have better key action a bit vs Casio px-s1000 and 3 sensor feature is unimportant .

So deciding blind buy Kawai es110 .Thank all of you alot .


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Originally Posted by begin ẻ

So deciding blind buy Kawai es110 .Thank all of you alot .

Congrats - the ES110 would've been my choice too between those two models. Let us know how you get on with it..always nice to hear back feedback.

Last edited by jamiecw; 07/16/19 09:46 AM.
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