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Joined: Jul 2017
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Same here; I donated over a year ago and didn't get a badge, didn't worry about it. Donated again (silver, annual) a few days ago and Frank indicated that a software glitch was preventing badges from showing up automatically as they should.
Originally Posted by TX-Bluebonnet
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
@TX-Bluebonnet: You didn't show up ... and I don't know why.
Originally Posted by TX-Bluebonnet
Could be there are more people, like me, who subscribed recently (June 2, Silver) but don't show up on the list yet.
Have a look at http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showmembers/sb/8/like/-1/page/19.html

You're there ... with no bronze/silver/gold/platinum notation. I don't know why.

The User List pages gave me the impression that very few people subscribe.
But your case suggests that the "badges" that should show in the User List are not showing up.
That is ... there are more subscribers that I've been led to believe.

There's an update on Frank's original post. Apparently there's a glitch for some who paid, depending on the link that was used. He's working on getting it sorted out.


"Serena," my Estonia L168.
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Read Frank's stickies. He plainly says that this is his source of income. He hasn't hidden that. He says so in plain English.



Please save yourself the arrogant undertone. Thanks.

He wrote that he considers the advertising revenue as part of his income and therefore can`t afford the forum`s costs on his own anymore.
But not, that he wants to open a new "business" by asking the users to make his living.

But good to know anyway.

Last edited by Pinkiepie; 07/05/19 12:31 PM.
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I sent a note asking for my badge to be displayed. I know I sent him PayPal a long time ago.

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My badge wasn't automatically displayed. I sent a PM and it was taken care of a few days later, manually.


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@jeffscot: What's the problem? For us it's free. For advertisers there's a fee. No contradiction. (That's the same model used by TV and radio for about a century.)

And yes, no one is entitled to an income. It's refreshing to hear someone say that.

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Some thoughts.
  • People tend to visit forums based on the quality of the community, not ownership. /r/piano might be free, but PW has the better community.
  • I have registered on a few forums over the years and lurked on a lot more and have neither had to pay for the privilege nor ever encountered a mandatory subscription system.
    I have seen voluntary subscriptions as well as donations, and these are generally sufficient for community-run sites looking to cover costs.
  • I have seen forums die before. One that I have a passing interest in died due to apathy and years of neglect on the part of the steward, but the community managed to resurrect it in a different place.
  • Hosting forums costs real money in terms of hardware and software. A couple of forums I visit have moved to self-hosted Discourse instances from whatever decrepit php-based system they installed in the Victorian era. For those who don't want to deal with the operations part, hosted instances are available for a price.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
@jeffscot: What's the problem? For us it's free. For advertisers there's a fee. No contradiction. (That's the same model used by TV and radio for about a century.)

And yes, no one is entitled to an income. It's refreshing to hear someone say that.


I would also observe, as a classical liberal, that no one is entitled to the involuntary servitude of others nor to receive upon demand the fruits of another's labor.

Anyone who visits this site is free, of course, to start their own site, and to own and operate it as they wish: Free or subscription, ads or no ads, moderated or unmoderated.

Frank is the person who started and owns this site. He can do with it what he wants.

Most of us trust him to do things that are right and appropriate; he does have something of a track record.


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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
@jeffscot: What's the problem? For us it's free. For advertisers there's a fee. No contradiction. (That's the same model used by TV and radio for about a century.)

If the site needs more support, the owner needs to procure more advertising.

Kawai benefits more than any manufacturer from this forum . . . they need to pony up some big time advertising dollars! thumb


.... Jeff ▫️ Yamaha P515 ▫️ Roll Tide
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Originally Posted by jeffscot
Kawai benefits more than any manufacturer from this forum . . . they need to pony up some big time advertising dollars

Good point.

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Originally Posted by newer player
Originally Posted by jeffscot
Kawai benefits more than any manufacturer from this forum . . . they need to pony up some big time advertising dollars

Good point.


And how do either of us know what Kawai is already paying? You don’t. So much advice without any information!

From my perspective it is Kawai Don, who has been so helpful to many here, that has been a big part of Kawai’s benefit from this forum.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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Originally Posted by dogperson
From my perspective it is Kawai Don, who has been so helpful to many here, that has been a big part of Kawai’s benefit from this forum.

Don't forget Kawai James here on the digital forum thumb


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by dogperson
From my perspective it is Kawai Don, who has been so helpful to many here, that has been a big part of Kawai’s benefit from this forum.

Don't forget Kawai James here on the digital forum thumb


Absolutely.., slip of the brain 😮


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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I think there was a Kawai Don ... Don Mannino (spelling?). He works (or worked) for Kawai, but I don't remember how I came to know the name. Perhaps he used to post here?

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Update ... he is indeed a member, he's Kawai Don, and he still posts here. But not very often. Only 18 posts this year so far, and 36 posts last year.
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/users/1247/kawaidon.html

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Originally Posted by dogperson
So much advice without any information!

The information is in Franks sticky post.
States the need for more support, and that advertising revenues are not enough.

How is me basically stating the same in a slightly different way, “So much advice without any information”?

The site would have a more viable future, with increased advertising support, as opposed to mandatory subscription revenues.
I’m sure Frank knows this, but for whatever reason he has not been able to procure the needed advertising support.

Nothing wrong with giving Kawai a nudge!
Yamaha or Steinway will do as well. wink


.... Jeff ▫️ Yamaha P515 ▫️ Roll Tide
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It's just barely possible that Frank might also have entertained the thought that more advertising revenue is better than less. He might even have sought to increase that revenue source.


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Originally Posted by ClsscLib
It's just barely possible that Frank might also have entertained the thought that more advertising revenue is better than less. He might even have sought to increase that revenue source.

I’m sure it’s much more than “barely possible”, which is why I posted...
Originally Posted by jeffscot
I’m sure Frank knows this, but for whatever reason he has not been able to procure the needed advertising support.

In fact I would think increasing advertising would be Franks main focus.


.... Jeff ▫️ Yamaha P515 ▫️ Roll Tide
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Originally Posted by jeffscot
Originally Posted by ClsscLib
It's just barely possible that Frank might also have entertained the thought that more advertising revenue is better than less. He might even have sought to increase that revenue source.

I’m sure it’s much more than “barely possible”, which is why I posted...
Originally Posted by jeffscot
I’m sure Frank knows this, but for whatever reason he has not been able to procure the needed advertising support.

In fact I would think increasing advertising would be Franks main focus.




You're missing the necessary entailment of your own assertions.

He knows. He's tried. Your telling him to do what he has already tried is pointless.

Consequently, he's considering other solutions.

Is this really so hard?


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Originally Posted by ClsscLib
You're missing the necessary entailment of your own assertions.

He knows. He's tried. Your telling him to do what he has already tried is pointless.

Consequently, he's considering other solutions.

Is this really so hard?


It’s not pointless in the least.
Procuring and increasing advertising is an ongoing process.

The solution of mandatory subscriptions to post, would eventually be the end of the forum.

So my opinion is the efforts to increase advertising should continue for the forum to have a viable future.
That or Frank could sell the forum...

You obviously think otherwise. No worries. smile


.... Jeff ▫️ Yamaha P515 ▫️ Roll Tide
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
As much as I love this forum, and with all due respect to Frank, but forums are a free thing by definition and should remain a free thing. They are not a business. I think he will realize that when he introduces the subscription.


This.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

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2006 August Förster 215
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