2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
25 members (EB5AGV, crazyRyoga, abwesend, leo_t7, MJBinTkPk, David B, 5 invisible), 863 guests, and 508 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1
M
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1
A nice video on some amazing virtuoso climaxes from neglected composers such as Alkan, Medtner, Godowsky, etc.



Do you know any more? What are your favorite piano climaxes in general?

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 493
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 493
Appreciate the video, but if I may put my amateur critic's hat on I'd say that most of these passages show why most of the composers represented are "neglected". Too much of it sounded like thematically empty, noisy, but ultimately forgettable flash (with the exception of the Franck work, which is great in total). It's too much of the bad sort of Liszt influence without enough of the good Liszt influence -- just trying to "out-difficult" whoever else. Speaking of Liszt, I'd say the coda to Totentanz is pretty thrilling.

By the way I can't figure out if Medtner sounds like Rachmaninoff or the other way around.

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 397
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 397
Totally disagree. And in Medtner's case, it's the complete opposite. Among the reasons his works got so little attention is that they tend to be relatively lacking in the kind of superficiality that makes for quick appeal. And the Medtner Sonata Tragica excerpt for example was far from "thematically empty." In fact, that excerpt is virtually bursting at the seams with thematic material. That excerpt comes from the end of the exposition of the sonata, and it contains many instances of the second theme of the individual sonata work and, additionally, brings in one of the themes from another work in the opus 39 group, concentrating on a motif taken from that theme (as is also done with part of the second theme). So you have multiple levels of themes going on from within and from without the work, and from within the themes themselves. There is a huge amount of craft going on there to be able to bring all that together into such an organic-sounding flow.

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 135
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by scriabinfanatic
And in Medtner's case, it's the complete opposite. Among the reasons his works got so little attention is that they tend to be relatively lacking in the kind of superficiality that makes for quick appeal. And the Medtner Sonata Tragica excerpt for example was far from "thematically empty." In fact, that excerpt is virtually bursting at the seams with thematic material.

+1.

Also, Medtner's works remind me a lot more of Beethoven than do Rachmaninoff's, in terms of building upon small rhythmic/thematic motifs - especially in a work like this Sonata Tragica.

I've also never heard the interpretation in the video shared by the OP before - I'll have to check out more of Tozer's recordings.

P.S. The coda to Chopin's Heroic Polonaise might be my favorite climax.

Last edited by PianoYos; 07/05/19 08:53 PM.
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 493
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 493
To each his/her own. As a "piano geek", I'd say most of this is the sort of thing that appeals mainly to piano geeks. Excepting Franck's work, these don't give me any desire to find the scores and learn them. The Medtner excerpts in this video highlight more of a concern with pianistic fireworks and clichés than with clear thematic development that could be followed by most non-pianists. And that goes for most of the rest. Not my cup of tea. Liszt had already been there. Scriabin though was quirky enough at least to keep it interesting.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392
A
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392
Originally Posted by scriabinfanatic
Totally disagree. And in Medtner's case, it's the complete opposite. Among the reasons his works got so little attention is that they tend to be relatively lacking in the kind of superficiality that makes for quick appeal. And the Medtner Sonata Tragica excerpt for example was far from "thematically empty." In fact, that excerpt is virtually bursting at the seams with thematic material. That excerpt comes from the end of the exposition of the sonata, and it contains many instances of the second theme of the individual sonata work and, additionally, brings in one of the themes from another work in the opus 39 group, concentrating on a motif taken from that theme (as is also done with part of the second theme). So you have multiple levels of themes going on from within and from without the work, and from within the themes themselves. There is a huge amount of craft going on there to be able to bring all that together into such an organic-sounding flow.

This is wonderful. Your observations are brilliantly communicated, and perhaps this would encourage others to explore this relatively neglected music.

That said, Tozer's performance comes off as rather generalized and monotonous in its dynamics -we can see the score for ourselves- and I don't think he is making the best case for Medtner's music, merely marginalizing him as a Rachmaninov wannabe.



Last edited by argerichfan; 07/06/19 03:06 AM.

Jason
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 493
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 493
Yeah, I have to apologize for being too flip in my criticism of these composers based solely on one video. I'm not experienced in the music of Medtner and Alkan so I really shouldn't condemn their entire bodies of work. But still I just don't feel the urge to try to tackle this music, although the technical demands demonstrated in the snippets in this video seem formidable.


Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Break-ups are hard
by Athdara - 06/24/21 11:54 PM
(Question) VST-applied MIDI and live-recorded VST
by Saberlarry - 06/24/21 11:39 PM
Trying to identify the maker of my old piano
by PianoLover90 - 06/24/21 11:30 PM
Haunted Piano !?!
by Retsacnal - 06/24/21 07:34 PM
Do you have this problem with Steinway?
by RonaldSteinway - 06/24/21 06:38 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,690
Posts3,107,039
Members101,897
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5