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Estonia Pianos
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Originally Posted by joggerjazz
In my opinion jazz pianists prefer a bright cutting sound for playing jazz with other musicians so they get heard in the mix.
Yamaha is known for that. But are you playing by yourself? If that's the case why go for a bright sound?

Agree. Bright sound is good for playing in a band or over a backing track, or if you love to play fast finger stuff and you want it to sound clearer and sharper without additional effort. Otherwise bright sound may be not appropriate for home piano, it may be very tiresome. I'd recommend to search for an instrument with a balanced sound, not bright, not mellow, something in-between.
I think you'll be able to find that among new lines of Yamaha.

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The newest Yamahas are less bright than they used to be but depending on room size you should check out the Yamaha SX and perhaps the CF series. Fabulous sound and action. Kawai’s Shigerus are really beautiful and have a warmer sound than Yamaha. The advantage of a brighter sound is it can be heard and stands out when you’re playing jazz with other instruments. You don’t want to be drown out by the trombone.
Pianos for specific music genres can be pretty hotly debated in this forum. Try as many pianos as you can. See if you can record your tryouts on different pianos. I think you’ll find the winner quickly when you play and record your test playing. Best of Luck!


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thank you, the balance is the key, got it, I will try some,

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Originally Posted by j&j
The newest Yamahas are less bright than they used to be but depending on room size you should check out the Yamaha SX and perhaps the CF series. Fabulous sound and action. Kawai’s Shigerus are really beautiful and have a warmer sound than Yamaha. The advantage of a brighter sound is it can be heard and stands out when you’re playing jazz with other instruments. You don’t want to be drown out by the trombone.
Pianos for specific music genres can be pretty hotly debated in this forum. Try as many pianos as you can. See if you can record your tryouts on different pianos. I think you’ll find the winner quickly when you play and record your test playing. Best of Luck!


thank you, I dont have band or some, so I only play it at home. I just solo. so , no matter what, good feel of action, and great sound if I like , that is the way I go, but I have to worry kawais' carbon fiber stuff, it might work well ? or work for 50 years ? I dont know

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could anyone please tell me some website for Comparing the piano price between EU , US to China ? then I would know which brand is Premium .thanks

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I can’t answer your 2nd question but have heard wonderful things about Kawai’s Millennium carbon fiber action. Carbon Fiber is really strong, doesn’t swell or shrink in high humidity so you might try it and fall in love. Best of Luck!


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re. Estonia, have listened to jazz players on Estonia grands. that company put a high priority on the u.s. market, and my impression was, they went after a similar bright and brassy tone characteristic to NY steinway and yamaha. again, difficult to determine if they have anything like the market presence in the people's republic like they have in the u.s.

once upon a time, Baldwin grands were also favored by jazz players. there are some superb performances on them in the archives of Marian McPartland's n.p.r. program 'Piano Jazz'. if the Chinese-built Baldwins have any resemblance to their predecessors, they'd be a 'dark horse' candidate at a lower price point.

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China Jack, if service and maintenance for your new grand is a concern, there are a couple of variables that can help you sort it before you decide. if you're getting it from a dealer, how long that business has been selling premium pianos, and who their clientele are, if they've been successful for some years, means x-number of top tier pianos are getting serviced and the dealer probably knows who does the work. also, if you are in a metropolitan area with a major music conservatory, or university with a big department for piano performance, those kind of institutions need both a source for top quality pianos and access to experts in maintaining them. if you get a new premium level grand from Yamaha or Kawai, those companies will assign a technician to your piano, unless they operate very differently in China than they do elsewhere, and the same is probably true for companies like Boesendorfer (associated now with Yamaha) or Bechstein.

you invoked the name of one of the piano gods, Monk. ironically, in the context of your quest and this discussion, he learned his art predominantly on upright pianos, growing up in uptown Manhattan in the milieu of stride style playing and rent parties with the pianos going all night. when he recorded for some of the minimally capitalized labels, they sometimes resorted to uprights. he was also known to be able to adapt very quickly to poorly maintained and out of tune pianos, incorporating the dissonances selectively in his improvisations. if you care to hear him on pianos that aren't NY steinways, refer to ones recorded in Europe, like his performance in Paris, 1969 at the Salle Pleyel (a famous piano maker, one of Chopin's favourites, that has virtually disappeared),

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I totally second what Huaidongxi wrote. I spend about 1 week every month in China. When I travel to Hangzhou on business, I sorely miss my piano.

Anyway, this past weekend, I decided to try out the local Hailun dealer in Hangzhou (which, by the way, is only a couple hours drive from the factory). The pianos there were not kept up well, and I was afraid that anyone who bought a piano there would have difficulty keeping it tuned and serviced properly. I mean, if a piano store that carries Feurich, Hailun, Petrof, Yamaha, Kawai, along with Pearl River made pianos can't keep their grands in tune, I wonder how an owner could.

BTW, I'll probably just try out the Hailun's in the USA when I'm back. I'm sure they will be more gratifying to play.

-Dore


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Originally Posted by huaidongxi
re. Estonia, have listened to jazz players on Estonia grands. that company put a high priority on the u.s. market, and my impression was, they went after a similar bright and brassy tone characteristic to NY steinway and yamaha. again, difficult to determine if they have anything like the market presence in the people's republic like they have in the u.s.
Neither Estonia or Steinway are known for their bright and brassy sound.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by huaidongxi
re. Estonia, have listened to jazz players on Estonia grands. that company put a high priority on the u.s. market, and my impression was, they went after a similar bright and brassy tone characteristic to NY steinway and yamaha. again, difficult to determine if they have anything like the market presence in the people's republic like they have in the u.s.
Neither Estonia or Steinway are known for their bright and brassy sound.


I must agree. "Bright and brassy" are NOT terms I would use to describe Estonia or Steinway pianos.



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Originally Posted by huaidongxi
China Jack, if service and maintenance for your new grand is a concern, there are a couple of variables that can help you sort it before you decide. if you're getting it from a dealer, how long that business has been selling premium pianos, and who their clientele are, if they've been successful for some years, means x-number of top tier pianos are getting serviced and the dealer probably knows who does the work. also, if you are in a metropolitan area with a major music conservatory, or university with a big department for piano performance, those kind of institutions need both a source for top quality pianos and access to experts in maintaining them. if you get a new premium level grand from Yamaha or Kawai, those companies will assign a technician to your piano, unless they operate very differently in China than they do elsewhere, and the same is probably true for companies like Boesendorfer (associated now with Yamaha) or Bechstein.

This may a little OT, but not by a lot...

I saw this YT video a while back of Vladimir Putin, President of Russia, and, undoubtedly one of the most powerful men in the world, playing this smallish baby grand piano while visiting China. However, the piano was horribly out of tune, and then some.

I thought to myself, this is really ironic and odd that such an important and powerful person, on the world stage (politics aside), would be filmed playing a piano so horribly out of tune...

Maybe China does indeed need more piano technicians. smile



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Originally Posted by j&j
I can’t answer your 2nd question but have heard wonderful things about Kawai’s Millennium carbon fiber action. Carbon Fiber is really strong, doesn’t swell or shrink in high humidity so you might try it and fall in love. Best of Luck!

sounds good, I will try then. Curious about its durability

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Originally Posted by huaidongxi
re. Estonia, have listened to jazz players on Estonia grands. that company put a high priority on the u.s. market, and my impression was, they went after a similar bright and brassy tone characteristic to NY steinway and yamaha. again, difficult to determine if they have anything like the market presence in the people's republic like they have in the u.s.

once upon a time, Baldwin grands were also favored by jazz players. there are some superb performances on them in the archives of Marian McPartland's n.p.r. program 'Piano Jazz'. if the Chinese-built Baldwins have any resemblance to their predecessors, they'd be a 'dark horse' candidate at a lower price point.



HAHAHA, thank you for telling me this, is interesting, and the "black horse" is the word you wanna use via chinglish.

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Originally Posted by huaidongxi
China Jack, if service and maintenance for your new grand is a concern, there are a couple of variables that can help you sort it before you decide. if you're getting it from a dealer, how long that business has been selling premium pianos, and who their clientele are, if they've been successful for some years, means x-number of top tier pianos are getting serviced and the dealer probably knows who does the work. also, if you are in a metropolitan area with a major music conservatory, or university with a big department for piano performance, those kind of institutions need both a source for top quality pianos and access to experts in maintaining them. if you get a new premium level grand from Yamaha or Kawai, those companies will assign a technician to your piano, unless they operate very differently in China than they do elsewhere, and the same is probably true for companies like Boesendorfer (associated now with Yamaha) or Bechstein.

you invoked the name of one of the piano gods, Monk. ironically, in the context of your quest and this discussion, he learned his art predominantly on upright pianos, growing up in uptown Manhattan in the milieu of stride style playing and rent parties with the pianos going all night. when he recorded for some of the minimally capitalized labels, they sometimes resorted to uprights. he was also known to be able to adapt very quickly to poorly maintained and out of tune pianos, incorporating the dissonances selectively in his improvisations. if you care to hear him on pianos that aren't NY steinways, refer to ones recorded in Europe, like his performance in Paris, 1969 at the Salle Pleyel (a famous piano maker, one of Chopin's favourites, that has virtually disappeared),


thank you again huaidongxi, the music conservatory is a good way to find out. hopefully I could ask someone who is work in there

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Originally Posted by Dore
I totally second what Huaidongxi wrote. I spend about 1 week every month in China. When I travel to Hangzhou on business, I sorely miss my piano.

Anyway, this past weekend, I decided to try out the local Hailun dealer in Hangzhou (which, by the way, is only a couple hours drive from the factory). The pianos there were not kept up well, and I was afraid that anyone who bought a piano there would have difficulty keeping it tuned and serviced properly. I mean, if a piano store that carries Feurich, Hailun, Petrof, Yamaha, Kawai, along with Pearl River made pianos can't keep their grands in tune, I wonder how an owner could.

BTW, I'll probably just try out the Hailun's in the USA when I'm back. I'm sure they will be more gratifying to play.

-Dore

hello Dore, those kind of store is all around china, believe me . let me Explain the Chinese market , and how it works

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I think you guys dont know about chinese market , so let me say something about. its very funny because huaidongxi(ID) you probably a Chinese, you know it, ANYWAY

In China, we dont have grand piano for no reason,

1, the building we lived. we live in the building, that in EU and US you called it Apartment building. biger, higher. so there no space for grand piano even I could have a 160Square meter to live, I mean , still Can't compare with yours. the building you lived in, we called them villa . but very expensive.

2,the EU and US brand is sales very expensive in china, all the cost is higher than your country, but those brand has Low production and low sales. it makes those brand dont have chance get into china, eigher high price or have to wait . if the market works not well, the company may go back, therefore some brand in china dont even have a company, then how could the onwer Enjoy service?

now you may understand why I always consider the brands' company and the service. because someday you may find no one to help you, I am sure the parent company will still server me but its lame you know. even now I have the time difference to you guys, and if I want maintain my piano, I guess the parent company could agree but I have to pay the Air tickets or some. hahaha

how to fix this ? the EU and US brand find a way, they find the chinese facorty and namd a new brand "XXXXXX" it made in china and use Their technology. its Cheap. them people in china will but those piano.

that is how it works . this is way we could only dream of those brand, we are not National Orchestra of China . tthose brand have to serve them, do a good job otherwise you never gonna sales one.

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Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by huaidongxi
re. Estonia, have listened to jazz players on Estonia grands. that company put a high priority on the u.s. market, and my impression was, they went after a similar bright and brassy tone characteristic to NY steinway and yamaha. again, difficult to determine if they have anything like the market presence in the people's republic like they have in the u.s.
Neither Estonia or Steinway are known for their bright and brassy sound.


I must agree. "Bright and brassy" are NOT terms I would use to describe Estonia or Steinway pianos.


i am not sure what brassy sounds like

Last edited by China_Jack; 06/24/19 11:13 AM.
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"bright and brassy" sounds like a descriptive phrase written by someone who really doesn't understand the tone of a Steinway or Estonia.


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Thanks for the explanations. Are there no independent technicians who can work on any brand of piano?
(just curious how it works in China)


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