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Joined: Jan 2015
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I rather like my Kawai CS 10 but, quite frankly, I've gone acoustic, and it's a tough comparison. However , I still play the Kawai, and would like to improve the sound. I'm about a million mile away from being a "techie". I played a Chopin sample of the Ravenscroft 275 through my piano speakers, and though it sounded great, it was pretty soft, volume-wise. And I am not sure, if i bought the VI, if it would actually sound that good on my piano. I have some Pianoteq apps that are pretty disappointing.

That said, I am not sure I know how to make these things work. When playing Pianoteq through my piano speakers, it is hard to get volume with as well. I could add on external speakers, but I'm not sure that would solve the problem. Maybe I'm just not going to be happy with anything compared to my Steinway "L". But it may be going out for prolonged repair, and the Kawai is all I'll have to play for a while. I play 99% classical, by the way.

I wish I could actually try the Ravenscroft real time on my Kawai before investing a lot of $$$.

Thanks for any thoughts on this matter.

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Ravenscroft also have an iOS app that is pretty cheap. I'm not clear on what compromises have been made compared to the desktop version but you might be happy with it.
Here's a comparison of the two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5jHSq5NgME

Cheers

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Originally Posted by harpsichorder
Maybe I'm just not going to be happy with anything compared to my Steinway "L".

To be frank: you won't. No DP speakers can compare to the real McCoy. I'd wager, even high end monitor setups (while getting loud enough and then some) can't replicate the presence of a grand.

If you can't get pianoteq/videos/general audio to sound loud enough, it seems that the amp inside the CS10 is too weak to get the job done or your pre-amp is set too low. Do you get the internal voices loud enough?

I would not buy any VST until I get the pianoteq demo to a satisfactory level. Other VSTi may change the timbre but will not solve underlying problems like a weak amp.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
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Originally Posted by Granyala
I would not buy any VST until I get the pianoteq demo to a satisfactory level. Other VSTi may change the timbre but will not solve underlying problems like a weak amp.

Excellent advice.

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Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by harpsichorder
Maybe I'm just not going to be happy with anything compared to my Steinway "L".

To be frank: you won't. No DP speakers can compare to the real McCoy. I'd wager, even high end monitor setups (while getting loud enough and then some) can't replicate the presence of a grand.

If you can't get pianoteq/videos/general audio to sound loud enough, it seems that the amp inside the CS10 is too weak to get the job done or your pre-amp is set too low. Do you get the internal voices loud enough?

I would not buy any VST until I get the pianoteq demo to a satisfactory level. Other VSTi may change the timbre but will not solve underlying problems like a weak amp.


Thank you- that sounds like good advice. I know nothing is going to sound like my "real" Steinway...I just want to get a little bit closer.
As mentioned, I'm not so good at the tech stuff. Maybe abysmal is the word. When I hear demos on the web, I wonder how much is the VST and how much is how well it's been tweaked.

Could you explain what you mean by "do you get the internal voices loud enough"? Do you mean the sound native to the instrument? If so, that is plenty loud.

Morten-thanks for the link to the IOS version. That might be an easy (cheap) way to try the Ravenscroft.

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Yes, I was referring to the internal voices. If they get loud enough, the amp should be sufficient, you need to up the volume at the pre amp stage (the device you connected to the CS10). Slowly beef it up to the point when you hear distortions and then back off a bit, that way you find the maximum it is capable of.

When I connect my soundcard to my Receiver, I have to set 100% volume and still crank it at the receiver end, because the signal of the sound card is pretty weak.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Ravenscroft also have an iOS app that is pretty cheap. I'm not clear on what compromises have been made compared to the desktop version but you might be happy with it.
Here's a comparison of the two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5jHSq5NgME

Cheers


Coincidentally, I was playing with the iOS version of Ravenscroft for the first time in about 6 months this morning. A couple things I've noticed:

  • Complete absence of popping noises that used to be there when I first started using it. If you search around, you'll find lots of complaints about this, and conjecture that it occurs when the app has hit a resource limit. Not sure if there was a bug fix in the app, or iOS, or the way I'm using it, but it hasn't happened once today.
  • Latency is still slim, but noticeable. It's definitely milliseconds of latency, but it's there. I tested configuring my NU1X so that it was playing both its internal sound and the Ravenscroft sound through the internally speakers simultaneously. It's most noticeable on higher notes to me. When playing with ONLY ravenscroft, I found I adjusted to it fairly quickly, but even then you feel it.
  • The samples sound great. Not a very intimate kind of a piano- this feels like a big piano to me.


My setup was using a lightning to USB cable directly from my NU1X (so, not directly comparable to your setup with a CS) to an iPhone X running iOS 12.3 beta 5. For me, this setup supports midi over the cable plus digital audio back to the piano over the same cable. E.g., there's no wireless stuff going on.

Last edited by BradleyG; 05/09/19 12:13 AM.

Current: Yamaha NU1X, Pianoteq & Logic; Yamaha Reface DX & YC
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Also, I should note that I've never used the desktop version of Ravenscroft, so I don't have any sense of whether the latency is particular to this setup, nor how much better or worse the sound may be on a desktop machine.


Current: Yamaha NU1X, Pianoteq & Logic; Yamaha Reface DX & YC
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Hmmm- a direct connection doesn't seem like it will to work for me with the CS10, according to advice on another thread I started specific to iphone 7,, unless I am missing a step somewhere. Are you using the "square" usb connector? Also, how do you keep this set-up from running down the phone battery?

Originally Posted by BradleyG
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Ravenscroft also have an iOS app that is pretty cheap. I'm not clear on what compromises have been made compared to the desktop version but you might be happy with it.
Here's a comparison of the two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5jHSq5NgME

Cheers




My setup was using a lightning to USB cable directly from my NU1X (so, not directly comparable to your setup with a CS) to an iPhone X running iOS 12.3 beta 5. For me, this setup supports midi over the cable plus digital audio back to the piano over the same cable. E.g., there's no wireless stuff going on.

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Originally Posted by harpsichorder
Also, how do you keep this set-up from running down the phone battery?

You don't. laugh
Though VSTi aren't that CPU intense, so as long as you keep the screen offline, you should be able to play for a few hours.
Not sure if phones can be charged by a CS10, probably not enough juice.


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Originally Posted by harpsichorder
Maybe I'm just not going to be happy with anything compared to my Steinway "L". But it may be going out for prolonged repair, and the Kawai is all I'll have to play for a while. I play 99% classical, by the way.


Just to chime in on the difference between Ravenscroft iOS vs Ravenscroft 275 using a PC with UVI - the PC version is GBs in size comparison to the 800-900MB that makes up the iOS version...as such I don't expect the two to be of equal quality in terms of sound and tweak able features...the iOS version I'd say is likely to be aimed more for the gigging musician who wants to travel light.

So it'll be interesting to hear how you find the experience using an iOS app and device to temporarily replace something that is better i.e. the Steinway L..

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Originally Posted by jamiecw
Originally Posted by harpsichorder
Maybe I'm just not going to be happy with anything compared to my Steinway "L". But it may be going out for prolonged repair, and the Kawai is all I'll have to play for a while. I play 99% classical, by the way.


Just to chime in on the difference between Ravenscroft iOS vs Ravenscroft 275 using a PC with UVI - the PC version is GBs in size comparison to the 800-900MB that makes up the iOS version...as such I don't expect the two to be of equal quality in terms of sound and tweak able features...the iOS version I'd say is likely to be aimed more for the gigging musician who wants to travel light.

So it'll be interesting to hear how you find the experience using an iOS app and device to temporarily replace something that is better i.e. the Steinway L..



Hi all- I finally got this working with an old ipod that has a microphone jack. So....hmmmm. The sound is pretty nice. As i mentioned in my similar thread on this subject, it's kind of a mess of wires and ipod on the floor (short connectors). I'm not sure it's a better option that what the piano can produce on it's own. Perhaps the full version is better, as you mention....but is it $200 worth of better?

Bradley-I did get some twang at first, but then I didn't . Go figure.
Granyala...I have learned how to adjust the sound 4 ways! Thanks for the heads up.

I wonder if there is anyone using the full app with a CS10. It's a very nice piano, even if it isn't my Steinway. I also already have Pianoteq with some Sterinways and a Steingraeber on it. Not really excited.

Now a nice harpsichord conversion would be fun. Pianoteq has a few decent ones.

Thanks for all your help, everyone.


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