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Joined: Apr 2019
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Abdol Offline OP
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So far I have found the following:

Kawai:
Pros:
- 88 keys sampled
- Very flexible and good amount of control and adjustment parameters over the parameters.
- Long samples.
- Sympathetic resonance simulation.
- Looping does not sound the same (I guess).
- Drawbar Organ (Yeah)!
- Costume microtuning (necessary for some Middle-Eastern scales).
- Optical sustain pedal.
- Key-action is great.
- Better portamento implementation.
- I got an amazing deal from the dealer and couldn't believe it (thank you!).

Cons:
- No audio interface (really wanted this feature and would pay extra for it)

Yamaha
Pros:
- Audio interface in CP88
- Long samples
- Key-action is great (I like Kawai more).

Cons:
- Not all the 88 keys are sampled, thus some keys sound funky.
- Editing is not as good as MP series.
- No Sympathetic resonance.
- Looping does sound the same (I'm sure).
- Sucks in Drawbar Organ department.
- No costume microtuning (sounds like a joke!).
- Old fashion sustain pedal.
- Faulty portamento implementation!!! and Yamaha never fixed the issue since MOTIF XS.
- Overpriced.


I have played the following for hours:
Yamaha CP4,
Roland RD-2000
Korg Kronos
Korg SV1
Korg Grandstage

- Yamaha's CP4 and CP88 samplings are extremely well done but the keyboard lacks in few departments as I said.
- I did not like Nord factory samples.
- When using the sustain pedal Roland RD2000 and playing the low keys it was not comparable to Yamaha and Kawai. I did not like the way samples were superpositioning.
- Korg: Samples were not as good as Yamaha and Kawai, better than Roland and Nord.

, and listened to almost any stage piano on soundcloud and youtube. Among all of them, Kawai was the best bang for the buck for me.

Last edited by Abdol; 05/04/19 08:17 AM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
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Abdol Offline OP
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Kawai
- Does have key-off velocity implemented.

Yamaha
- No key-off velocity implemented in the architecture (and it's very unlikely that Yamaha would ever add this feature).

I should add that this is my personal point of view and is based on my own expectations! So it might sound completely unfair to other readers. I have no intention of butchering any other brand or keyboard as the instruments which are mentioned here are all astonishingly great and well engineered.

What I'd love to see is more contribution to this comparison and hopefully, it results in a less biased comparison. I hope this post would join the many good posts in this forum which helped me in making my decision to what Stage Piano to purchase.

Cheers,
Abdol

Last edited by Abdol; 05/04/19 08:31 AM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
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I don't know whether Yamaha will or will not add this feature ...
Originally Posted by Abdol
Yamaha - No key-off velocity implemented in the architecture (and it's very unlikely that Yamaha would ever add this feature).
But I don't think I'll ever have use for it.

Key-off velocity is akin to chrome-plated tail fins. Surely there are more pressing needs?

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't know whether Yamaha will or will not add this feature ...
Originally Posted by Abdol
Yamaha - No key-off velocity implemented in the architecture (and it's very unlikely that Yamaha would ever add this feature).
But I don't think I'll ever have use for it.

Key-off velocity is akin to chrome-plated tail fins. Surely there are more pressing needs?


Interesting MacMacMac! Do you mind if I ask what instruments you usually play and which of them you use on a DP?

I apologize for asking it but I am new to this forum (only 20 posts...) and I am not familiar with the members as much as you are. You've been here since 2009 with 8000+ posts. So I must be cautious at least 400 times and not be prudent.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
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Originally Posted by Abdol
So far I have found the following:

Kawai:
Pros:
- 88 keys sampled
- Very flexible and good amount of control and adjustment parameters over the parameters.
- Long samples.
- Sympathetic resonance simulation.
- Looping does not sound the same (I guess).
- Drawbar Organ (Yeah)!
- Costume microtuning (necessary for some Middle-Eastern scales).
- Optical sustain pedal.
- Key-action is great.
- Better portamento implementation.
- I got an amazing deal from the dealer and couldn't believe it (thank you!).

Cons:
- No audio interface (really wanted this feature and would pay extra for it)

Yamaha
Pros:
- Audio interface in CP88
- Long samples
- Key-action is great (I like Kawai more).

Cons:
- Not all the 88 keys are sampled, thus some keys sound funky.
- Editing is not as good as MP series.
- No Sympathetic resonance.
- Looping does sound the same (I'm sure).
- Sucks in Drawbar Organ department.
- No costume microtuning (sounds like a joke!).
- Old fashion sustain pedal.
- Faulty portamento implementation!!! and Yamaha never fixed the issue since MOTIF XS.
- Overpriced.


I have played the following for hours:
Yamaha CP4,
Roland RD-2000
Korg Kronos
Korg SV1
Korg Grandstage

- Yamaha's CP4 and CP88 samplings are extremely well done but the keyboard lacks in few departments as I said.
- I did not like Nord factory samples.
- When using the sustain pedal Roland RD2000 and playing the low keys it was not comparable to Yamaha and Kawai. I did not like the way samples were superpositioning.
- Korg: Samples were not as good as Yamaha and Kawai, better than Roland and Nord.

, and listened to almost any stage piano on soundcloud and youtube. Among all of them, Kawai was the best bang for the buck for me.


I see you have elaborated a large list of features and opinions about these DPs. However, you do not say what you are looking for. So, the list is irrelevant without context.... are you looking for a workstation, a synth, a digital piano? For gigging, for music production, for studio use, for practicing? Are you a pro, a beginner? What capabilities are important to you? Why?

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@Abdol: I have a ten-year-old Clavinova. I don't like the sound of it, so I use virtual instruments. I have MANY of them, but there are a few that I use most of the time: Galaxy Grandeur and Galaxy Vintage D.
There are many newer ones available. Maybe I'll try one or two of them someday. There's lots of talk here about the many instruments available today.

As for being familiar with the members here ... that is fleeting knowledge. Very few of the folks here when I joined ten years ago are still here. So "knowing" anyone here is short-lived. People come and go all the time.

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Abdol Offline OP
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Originally Posted by arc7urus

I see you have elaborated a large list of features and opinions about these DPs. However, you do not say what you are looking for. So, the list is irrelevant without context.... are you looking for a workstation, a synth, a digital piano? For gigging, for music production, for studio use, for practicing? Are you a pro, a beginner? What capabilities are important to you? Why?


arc7urus my main comparison is about stage pianos.

It's a good feeling when a customer realizes that the instrument has not been necessarily manufactured to sell. It makes me feel appreciated and valued.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
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Abdol Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
@Abdol: I have a ten-year-old Clavinova. I don't like the sound of it, so I use virtual instruments. I have MANY of them, but there are a few that I use most of the time: Galaxy Grandeur and Galaxy Vintage D.
There are many newer ones available. Maybe I'll try one or two of them someday. There's lots of talk here about the many instruments available today.

As for being familiar with the members here ... that is fleeting knowledge. Very few of the folks here when I joined ten years ago are still here. So "knowing" anyone here is short-lived. People come and go all the time.


I see MacMacMac smile well you're absolutely right. Clavinova series is Yamaha's top of the line digital piano and it was top of the line 10 years ago too! So your DP, while it's 10 years old, still has its own heritage (and it's the musician who makes the instrument sound outstanding and I'm sure you do play really good after all these years at least way better than me).

Regarding the users, yes people come and go, but having respect for others is permanent characteristic, it cannot come and go all the time, otherwise, I will lose my sanity.

Last edited by Abdol; 05/04/19 02:53 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
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Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by arc7urus

I see you have elaborated a large list of features and opinions about these DPs. However, you do not say what you are looking for. So, the list is irrelevant without context.... are you looking for a workstation, a synth, a digital piano? For gigging, for music production, for studio use, for practicing? Are you a pro, a beginner? What capabilities are important to you? Why?


arc7urus my main comparison is about stage pianos.

It's a good feeling when a customer realizes that the instrument has not been necessarily manufactured to sell. It makes me feel appreciated and valued.

Ok, but for what purpose? Acoustic piano simulation? Or to play other instruments? Are you looking for a midi controller with a good keyboard and plenty of buttons and knobs to drive external software or do you want a standalone instrument? If your goal is to have the best piano simulation why aren’t you considering the latest sound engine on the CA models? Or external software? Some of the features you see to be looking for, such as custom tuning, are much better supported in software VSTs than in any of these DPs. By the way, are you referring to the kawai mp7 or mp11? They are very different beasts, especially as controllers and regarding the action.

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Abdol Offline OP
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Originally Posted by arc7urus

I see you have elaborated a large list of features and opinions about these DPs. However, you do not say what you are looking for. So, the list is irrelevant without context.... are you looking for a workstation, a synth, a digital piano? For gigging, for music production, for studio use, for practicing? Are you a pro, a beginner? What capabilities are important to you? Why?


arc7urus I'm speaking about stage pianos. A stage piano's application is quite clear? You may take it to a gig, it's relatively portable and you can practice on it. The comparable keyboards in this category:
Yamaha CP series,
Korg stage pianos: GrandStage and SV1
Roland: RD series
Nord: Nord Stage and Piano
Kawai: MP series
...

My concern is what I get for the money I pay.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
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An MP11SE showed up at my door yesterday, but I haven't got it set up yet, as we're repurposing an extra room for this and my library. Per an earlier thread, I wanted something with a good action, primarily to use as a silent practice complement to my Steinway B. I've been using an older, Yamaha Arius as a controller for Pianoteq's Steinway B simulation, so in getting the Kawai, I've duplicated some functionality I already have. However, the reviews and comments I've been reading give the MP11SE's own sound generator high marks, so it will be interesting to conpare the Pianoteq VST to the Kawai's native sounds. And of course, see if my initially good mpression of its action's ability to be something at least reasonably close to the Steinway holds up. We should be ready to give it a spin later today. I'll say this for my trusty old Yamaha, it has done yeoman service and held up well to a minimum of 2 hours every day, often more, for three years now with zero problems.

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Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by arc7urus

I see you have elaborated a large list of features and opinions about these DPs. However, you do not say what you are looking for. So, the list is irrelevant without context.... are you looking for a workstation, a synth, a digital piano? For gigging, for music production, for studio use, for practicing? Are you a pro, a beginner? What capabilities are important to you? Why?


arc7urus I'm speaking about stage pianos. A stage piano's application is quite clear?

Sure. But I cannot provide further comments with such a wide and open scope. Good luck with your choice. Cheers!


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