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Hello,

Is there something wrong with Kawai DPs quality or people who bought it are too pedant? On this forum i red owners complaints about clicking key sound, noises, uneven key sensitivity, "dead spots", disappearing sound. I haven't found anything like that about Roland or Yamaha.

Asking because i had to choose between Yamaha CLP645 and Kawai CA58. Both are very good compared to my Riga acoustic upright 1983.

Very thankful for your opinions.

I think on this forum the Kawai digital pianos are probably more popular than the Yamaha ones. Keep in mind that on any internet forum, more people post when they have a problem and are looking for help vs. saying "yep, everything's working fine." So with the popularity of the Kawai instruments here, you tend to see more of this type of posts.

I do think Yamaha is better built from a fit and finish perspective, but not to the point where it would prevent me from buying a Kawai if I liked how it played better.

If you look hard enough you’ll find issues with Yamaha and Rolands too...I have a Roland and had an issue with it but was fixed under warranty...and that’s the key, make sure there is a good warranty!

There is a perceived notion, especially here on PW that Kawai have a QC issue or the keys get issues due to transportation etc. But the warranty should cover you there..I read somewhere here (a post about the key weight of the P515) that Yamaha may have less of these issues because their keybed are slightly more firm and that may be done on purpose so they don’t get as many DOA issues. This maybe so...

If you are buying from new I’d be cautioned about buying one over the other because of issues reported on these forums and instead buy the one you like to play on the most and let the warranty take care of the rest.

The argument has been made that Kawai's are disproportionately represented here and that accounts for the higher level of reported problems. I think there is truth to that. I have not found a piano forum that has 30+ AdvantGrand owners taking apart their instruments, making modifications, documenting their experience. However, you can find that Here with the NV10.

I have owned a Kawai ES100, ES8, and I currently own an MP11SE (I'm also considering a NV10).

I had no problems with the ES100 and very minor problems with the ES8 and MP11SE. Kawai's response and customer service has been the standard which I think all other manufacturers should strive for if they aren't already there. Customer service means a lot to me and I love the fact that I can call Kawai America Corporation and talk to an expert who is friendly and happy to help.

God Bless,
David

P.S. I've also owned a Yamaha DGX650 and I currently also own and regularly play a Yamaha P45. Both pianos performed as expected. I'd be happy to purchase products from either company.

Well, in my experience …. ES7, ES8, MP11SE ….

I have found that before I purchased the ES7, I was changing pianos often (6 mo. - 1 yr).

When I purchased the ES7 I felt like I had finally found one that satisfied my requirements for sound and touch and stopped trying for "better".

Yes, there have been times when keys stopped sounding and needed repairs.

Most were under warranty ….. 1 was not.

I am still a proponent of the Kawai product (warts and all) because of the sound and touch quality and excellent support from the Kawai Corporation.

Since the Prices Paid threads began nearly fifteen years ago there have been 1234 reports of new piano purchases:

From 2005 through Dec 2014 there have been 951 reports of new piano purchases:

Since Jan 2015 there have been 269 reports of new piano purchases:

So, with respect to purchases reported here ...
We see that the dominance of Yamaha over Kawai until 2014 (36% to 28%) has shifted to Kawai over Yamaha (45% to 24%).

I wonder ... does the rate of reported problems mirror, in part, the rate of purchase?

What's notable about the Kawai problems reported here is that they appear to be widespread enough that they could put people off. I have an MP10 and had the infamous clicky keys, and also problems with spikes in the MIDI data when using pedals -I don't know if other people had this problem. I wouldn't feel confident buying Kawai now.


Out in the world at large though, there's no shortage of complaints about the other manufacturers.

And Casio.

And there are "clicking keys" and there seriously clunky and rattly keys. I haven't heard clicking Kawai keys in person, so can't say how bad they actually are. But I have an old Yamaha "electronic piano" from the 80's (1980's that is...) which has somewhat clicky keys by design (and not by wear). Because it's by design and always in all keys, it doesn't bother me. (Especially as it's tucked away in the closet waiting for me to sell it.)

Well, my sample size is 2 for Yamaha (entry-level keyboard, midrange digital piano) and 1 for Kawai (entry-level digital piano). The Yamaha instruments were and are both fine and the Kawai wasn't. First issues with the latter appeared few weeks after delivery (sensor scanning) and then the action wore out after less than five years of use.

While this is nowhere near being representative, my personal experience obviously goes into my purchase decision making. I can assure you, if my new Yamaha breaks down, I'm going to make noise about it, too.

Thanks for posting this, I struggled with the exact same question on these two models before finally rationalizing what many others have said here. There do seem to be a large number of complaints about Kawai DPs but it's hard to truly know the reliability rate given the preference of active users on this forum. The people who like to air their issues are going to make the most noise. There may be others who don't bother to mention their issues because they get resolved and therefore don't get tallied.

In the end, I still have a slight preference for the action of the CA58. Yes, potential issues would be inconvenient, but I want to enjoy playing the piano rather than settling for a piano just because there's less chance of it breaking. Of course, it is my hope that I have no major problems. The warranty is 10 years for my purchase so I want to believe that will cover enough for it to feel like I got my money's worth regardless of what happens afterwards.

They are both fine pianos so you will enjoy either one.

Everyone already said everything I wanted to. Basically buy what feels and sounds good to you. But also DON'T buy used and always make sure there's a good warranty behind it.

Unrelated mostly but a nice thing to know, those stickers on a lot of electronics that say "Warranty Void if Seal Broken" and similar, are not legal. They cannot void warranty for reasons like that, only if they can prove your tampering caused the damage. Companies know most people don't know this so they'll blatantly lie by saying the warranty is voided because you opened the speaker or whatever even though it's not legal. I only have a Yamaha so I don't know if any companies do this with piano but I thought it would be good to mention it anyway.

Source: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-out-feds-say-those-warnings-are-illegal

It’s so cute the way Kawai owners rationalize their abundant reliability issues.

I love my Yamaha, Alex!

Without proper statistical data it is not possible to assert that Kawai is more or less reliable than other brands. However, I find the number of reports regarding the recent models to be upsetting. So, either the owners of DPs from other brands are not represented here or they are simply keeping quiet about similar issues.

However, it is an undeniable fact the the latest CA78, CA98 and NV10 models were shipped with a graphical user interface that was not ready for the market due to the numerous issues and design shortcomings that have neither been acknowledged or corrected by Kawai for over one year.

You're basically accusing Kawai owners of being the Alpha Romeo owners of the digital piano world lol...
The analogy isn't the case for me (my Kawai has never had issues, touch wood); however, I do believe you're not a PianoHead till you've loved a Kawai...(figuratively, not literally,,, just sayin).

Quite so. Data talks. All else is conjecture.
Without a call for data I'd be justified in saying that the moon is made of cheese. Swiss cheese. It looks like swiss cheese, right? So therefore it is.
Oops. Neil Armstrong brought back some moon rocks. They weren't made of cheese.
That's data. Case closed.

Nope, it means only he landed on the wrong spot.

Thank you all for your replies.
Today i went to music store to try both Yamaha CLP 645 and Kawai Ca48 (They have no CA58 to test, but available for order).
Shop consultant said they had no issues with Kawai at all for past years. Same with Yamaha. Looks like reliability is not the problem. Yamaha - 5 years warranty. Kawai - 2 years. Another interesting thing: we discovered, that CSP170 tablet with Smart Pianist app works with CLP645 as well and does all the same. Yamaha sound even in cheap headphones is so real and clear thanks to binaural samples. It could be perfect DP for me, but keys are so heavy, i could hardly control the sound. I had to fight for the sound i d like to get. Well, nothing new here. I red about it many times here, on this forum. Kawai CA48 is much easier to play, but it is all i could compare. Everything else is a bit different on CA58. I think,i will make one more test drive before i choose one.

Then it's time to learn it. It's well worth the effort and rewards you with much better tone control overall.

You should definately try the 58 since I thought that the sound difference is quite huge. But I would also advise you to try the 645 again. The feel gets really better once youve acustomed to it.

The same advice as I would give to OP. My teacher comes over to my place to teach me on my CLP645 and he claimed that the keys are still much lighter than many acoustic pianos. Personally, I did not enjoy the keyboard of the 645 that much when I first tested it out at the store, but I went ahead and purchased it anyway and now I'm enjoying every minute of playing on it.