2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
40 members (Gene Nelson, beeboss, ando, drumour, AlphaBravoCharlie, fatar760, EssBrace, EB5AGV, DSC, 8 invisible), 1,316 guests, and 598 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#2816488 02/17/19 10:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 4
A
Alex_G Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 4
Hello,

Is there something wrong with Kawai DPs quality or people who bought it are too pedant? On this forum i red owners complaints about clicking key sound, noises, uneven key sensitivity, "dead spots", disappearing sound. I haven't found anything like that about Roland or Yamaha.

Asking because i had to choose between Yamaha CLP645 and Kawai CA58. Both are very good compared to my Riga acoustic upright 1983.

Very thankful for your opinions.


Last edited by Alex_G; 02/17/19 10:44 AM.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 664
C
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 664
I think on this forum the Kawai digital pianos are probably more popular than the Yamaha ones. Keep in mind that on any internet forum, more people post when they have a problem and are looking for help vs. saying "yep, everything's working fine." So with the popularity of the Kawai instruments here, you tend to see more of this type of posts.

I do think Yamaha is better built from a fit and finish perspective, but not to the point where it would prevent me from buying a Kawai if I liked how it played better.

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 516
J
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 516
If you look hard enough you’ll find issues with Yamaha and Rolands too...I have a Roland and had an issue with it but was fixed under warranty...and that’s the key, make sure there is a good warranty!

There is a perceived notion, especially here on PW that Kawai have a QC issue or the keys get issues due to transportation etc. But the warranty should cover you there..I read somewhere here (a post about the key weight of the P515) that Yamaha may have less of these issues because their keybed are slightly more firm and that may be done on purpose so they don’t get as many DOA issues. This maybe so...

If you are buying from new I’d be cautioned about buying one over the other because of issues reported on these forums and instead buy the one you like to play on the most and let the warranty take care of the rest.

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,548
D
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,548
The argument has been made that Kawai's are disproportionately represented here and that accounts for the higher level of reported problems. I think there is truth to that. I have not found a piano forum that has 30+ AdvantGrand owners taking apart their instruments, making modifications, documenting their experience. However, you can find that Here with the NV10.

I have owned a Kawai ES100, ES8, and I currently own an MP11SE (I'm also considering a NV10).

I had no problems with the ES100 and very minor problems with the ES8 and MP11SE. Kawai's response and customer service has been the standard which I think all other manufacturers should strive for if they aren't already there. Customer service means a lot to me and I love the fact that I can call Kawai America Corporation and talk to an expert who is friendly and happy to help.

God Bless,
David

P.S. I've also owned a Yamaha DGX650 and I currently also own and regularly play a Yamaha P45. Both pianos performed as expected. I'd be happy to purchase products from either company.

Last edited by David B; 02/17/19 11:29 AM.

Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Duane Shinn - 52 Week Crash Course - Completed
Duane Shinn - Praise and Gospel Course - In Progress
Greg Howlett - Inspirational Improvisation - In Progress
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,718
D
dmd Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,718
Well, in my experience …. ES7, ES8, MP11SE ….

I have found that before I purchased the ES7, I was changing pianos often (6 mo. - 1 yr).

When I purchased the ES7 I felt like I had finally found one that satisfied my requirements for sound and touch and stopped trying for "better".

Yes, there have been times when keys stopped sounding and needed repairs.

Most were under warranty ….. 1 was not.

I am still a proponent of the Kawai product (warts and all) because of the sound and touch quality and excellent support from the Kawai Corporation.


Don

Kawai MP7SE, Pianoteq, FocusRite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface, Yamaha MG06 Mixer
KRK 5" Studio Monitors or Edifier R1850DB Bookshelf speakers or SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,042
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,042
Since the Prices Paid threads began nearly fifteen years ago there have been 1234 reports of new piano purchases:
Code
Yamaha. . 411 . . 33.3%
Kawai . . 388 . . 31.4%
Roland. . 236 . . 19.1%
Casio . . 186 . . 15.1%

From 2005 through Dec 2014 there have been 951 reports of new piano purchases:
Code
Yamaha. . 346 . .36.4%
Kawai . . 267 . .28.1%
Roland. . 183 . .19.2%
Casio . . 155 . .16.3%

Since Jan 2015 there have been 269 reports of new piano purchases:
Code
Yamaha . . 64 . . 23.8%
Kawai . . 121 . . 45.0%
Roland . . 53 . . 19.7%
Casio . . .31 . . 11.5%

So, with respect to purchases reported here ...
We see that the dominance of Yamaha over Kawai until 2014 (36% to 28%) has shifted to Kawai over Yamaha (45% to 24%).

I wonder ... does the rate of reported problems mirror, in part, the rate of purchase?

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,943
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,943
What's notable about the Kawai problems reported here is that they appear to be widespread enough that they could put people off. I have an MP10 and had the infamous clicky keys, and also problems with spikes in the MIDI data when using pedals -I don't know if other people had this problem. I wouldn't feel confident buying Kawai now.


Out in the world at large though, there's no shortage of complaints about the other manufacturers.

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,830
C
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,830
Originally Posted by jamiecw
If you look hard enough you’ll find issues with Yamaha and Rolands too...


And Casio.

And there are "clicking keys" and there seriously clunky and rattly keys. I haven't heard clicking Kawai keys in person, so can't say how bad they actually are. But I have an old Yamaha "electronic piano" from the 80's (1980's that is...) which has somewhat clicky keys by design (and not by wear). Because it's by design and always in all keys, it doesn't bother me. (Especially as it's tucked away in the closet waiting for me to sell it.)

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,359
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,359
Originally Posted by Alex_G
Is there something wrong with Kawai DPs quality or people who bought it are too pedant? On this forum i red owners complaints about clicking key sound, noises, uneven key sensitivity, "dead spots", disappearing sound. I haven't found anything like that about Roland or Yamaha.

Well, my sample size is 2 for Yamaha (entry-level keyboard, midrange digital piano) and 1 for Kawai (entry-level digital piano). The Yamaha instruments were and are both fine and the Kawai wasn't. First issues with the latter appeared few weeks after delivery (sensor scanning) and then the action wore out after less than five years of use.

While this is nowhere near being representative, my personal experience obviously goes into my purchase decision making. I can assure you, if my new Yamaha breaks down, I'm going to make noise about it, too. wink


Yamaha P-515
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 32
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 32
Thanks for posting this, I struggled with the exact same question on these two models before finally rationalizing what many others have said here. There do seem to be a large number of complaints about Kawai DPs but it's hard to truly know the reliability rate given the preference of active users on this forum. The people who like to air their issues are going to make the most noise. There may be others who don't bother to mention their issues because they get resolved and therefore don't get tallied.

In the end, I still have a slight preference for the action of the CA58. Yes, potential issues would be inconvenient, but I want to enjoy playing the piano rather than settling for a piano just because there's less chance of it breaking. Of course, it is my hope that I have no major problems. The warranty is 10 years for my purchase so I want to believe that will cover enough for it to feel like I got my money's worth regardless of what happens afterwards.

They are both fine pianos so you will enjoy either one.

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 147
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 147
Everyone already said everything I wanted to. Basically buy what feels and sounds good to you. But also DON'T buy used and always make sure there's a good warranty behind it.

Unrelated mostly but a nice thing to know, those stickers on a lot of electronics that say "Warranty Void if Seal Broken" and similar, are not legal. They cannot void warranty for reasons like that, only if they can prove your tampering caused the damage. Companies know most people don't know this so they'll blatantly lie by saying the warranty is voided because you opened the speaker or whatever even though it's not legal. I only have a Yamaha so I don't know if any companies do this with piano but I thought it would be good to mention it anyway.

Source: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-out-feds-say-those-warnings-are-illegal

Last edited by Kougeru; 02/17/19 04:51 PM. Reason: typo
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 310
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 310

It’s so cute the way Kawai owners rationalize their abundant reliability issues. laugh

I love my Yamaha, Alex! thumb


.... Jeff ▫️ Yamaha P515 ▫️ Roll Tide
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Without proper statistical data it is not possible to assert that Kawai is more or less reliable than other brands. However, I find the number of reports regarding the recent models to be upsetting. So, either the owners of DPs from other brands are not represented here or they are simply keeping quiet about similar issues.

However, it is an undeniable fact the the latest CA78, CA98 and NV10 models were shipped with a graphical user interface that was not ready for the market due to the numerous issues and design shortcomings that have neither been acknowledged or corrected by Kawai for over one year.

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,392
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,392
Originally Posted by jeffscot

It’s so cute the way Kawai owners rationalize their abundant reliability issues. laugh

I love my Yamaha, Alex! thumb



You're basically accusing Kawai owners of being the Alpha Romeo owners of the digital piano world lol...
The analogy isn't the case for me (my Kawai has never had issues, touch wood); however, I do believe you're not a PianoHead till you've loved a Kawai...(figuratively, not literally,,, just sayin).


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,042
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,042
Quite so. Data talks. All else is conjecture.
Without a call for data I'd be justified in saying that the moon is made of cheese. Swiss cheese. It looks like swiss cheese, right? So therefore it is.
Oops. Neil Armstrong brought back some moon rocks. They weren't made of cheese.
That's data. Case closed.
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Without proper statistical data it is not possible to assert that Kawai is more or less reliable than other brands. However, I find the number of reports regarding the recent models to be upsetting. So, either the owners of DPs from other brands are not represented here or they are simply keeping quiet about similar issues.

However, it is an undeniable fact the the latest CA78, CA98 and NV10 models were shipped with a graphical user interface that was not ready for the market due to the numerous issues and design shortcomings that have neither been acknowledged or corrected by Kawai for over one year.

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,327
E
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,327
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Neil Armstrong brought back some moon rocks. They weren't made of cheese.
That's data. Case closed.


Nope, it means only he landed on the wrong spot. wink


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 4
A
Alex_G Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
A
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 4
Thank you all for your replies.
Today i went to music store to try both Yamaha CLP 645 and Kawai Ca48 (They have no CA58 to test, but available for order).
Shop consultant said they had no issues with Kawai at all for past years. Same with Yamaha. Looks like reliability is not the problem. Yamaha - 5 years warranty. Kawai - 2 years. Another interesting thing: we discovered, that CSP170 tablet with Smart Pianist app works with CLP645 as well and does all the same. Yamaha sound even in cheap headphones is so real and clear thanks to binaural samples. It could be perfect DP for me, but keys are so heavy, i could hardly control the sound. I had to fight for the sound i d like to get. Well, nothing new here. I red about it many times here, on this forum. Kawai CA48 is much easier to play, but it is all i could compare. Everything else is a bit different on CA58. I think,i will make one more test drive before i choose one.

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,359
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,359
Originally Posted by Alex_G
It could be perfect DP for me, but keys are so heavy, i could hardly control the sound. I had to fight for the sound i d like to get.

Then it's time to learn it. It's well worth the effort and rewards you with much better tone control overall.


Yamaha P-515
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 248
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 248
You should definately try the 58 since I thought that the sound difference is quite huge. But I would also advise you to try the 645 again. The feel gets really better once youve acustomed to it.

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 576
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 576
Originally Posted by Markuska
But I would also advise you to try the 645 again. The feel gets really better once youve acustomed to it.

The same advice as I would give to OP. My teacher comes over to my place to teach me on my CLP645 and he claimed that the keys are still much lighter than many acoustic pianos. Personally, I did not enjoy the keyboard of the 645 that much when I first tested it out at the store, but I went ahead and purchased it anyway and now I'm enjoying every minute of playing on it.


Yamaha AvantGrand N1X
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
.nausicaa OP. (elementary version)
by WarDesu - 07/23/21 07:09 PM
Selling the sizzle if not the steak
by cfhosford - 07/23/21 06:25 PM
For the Experts
by Epee - 07/23/21 12:43 PM
Another question about piano positioning
by Cassia - 07/23/21 12:16 PM
1992 Yamaha C3 vs new CX2
by MusterMark - 07/23/21 10:19 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics208,177
Posts3,115,881
Members102,217
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5