2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
31 members (achoo42, Dave Horne, FrankCox, ando, Beansparrow, Emery Wang, dima5222, 5 invisible), 453 guests, and 603 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 32
B
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 32
I went to a Costco demo of Yamahas. They did not have a CLP-645 on display so the rep suggested I play the CVP-705 since it is also NWX. So my question is whether the feel is the same or very close across the Yamaha models or did I need to find a store if I want to test the CLP-645 before make my decision?

Thanks

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,491
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,491
This is a hard question. And a very good one. Here's why ...

Some years ago during a visit to Sam Ash I tried several Yamaha (low-end) pianos with the GH action.
All had the same action, yet there was SUBSTANTIAL difference in the feel. I do not know why.

I cannot say that this disparity would be present when comparing the CVP705 with the CLP645. But it might be.
And before spending thousands I'd want to know just exactly what I'm getting.

If I were you I'd do two things:
1. If you want a CLP645, try a CLP645.
2. Shop somewhere other than Costco. Their "special" prices can be had elsewhere, such as a proper piano shop.
And you'll not be rushed there. And you'll be able to properly demo the piano there. And it won't be crowded and noisy.

Costco is for bulk meats, and bulk toilet paper, and cheap sneakers, and cheap garden hose.
But not pianos.

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 32
B
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 32
Mac,

Thanks, I suspect the feel is probably not consistent which is why I was curious if anyone could compare.

The funny thing is that the nearest authorized dealer to me is the one who is representing at the Costco (ok distance but not what I would consider a convenient drive). I agree that Costco is not the best place to try them out, the sound is definitely not accurate, but the feel is still the feel. Playing the CLP-635 was a big let down after playing the acoustics (no surprise) and the feel of the 43" and 45" acoustics would take some getting used to. I have never felt rushed at these events so that is not an issue. If anything I prefer that sales people aren't hovering over me.

I have a friend who has a CLP-645 so I need to ask if I can stop by and play it sometime. It will be nice to have a true home environment experience.

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
Bambooninja, I have tried the two pianos and NWX on a CLP-645 feels very similar to that on a CVP-705. But you should test it at a Yamaha store -- the CLP-645 is a popular model and usually in stock -- to make sure it is right for you.

Please be aware that Costco does not run the Yamaha roadshow at their stores with regular staff. The event is usually organized in cooperation with a local Yamaha dealer, and the piano rep is not a Costco employee.

Costco negotiates the prices and this is a simple way to get a good deal. It may not always be "the best" deal, depending your negotiating skills and/or relationship with the local Yamaha dealer.

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 32
B
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 32
Lotus,

Thanks, helpful to know you thought they felt similar. The CVP felt better than the CLP-635 on display but that's all I could assess. I know a lot of folks like the NU1X but the feel didn't appeal to me (and not in my budget). The rep at the Costco roadshow gave me his card which is why I know he is from a local authorized Yamaha dealer.

Peggy

Last edited by bambooninja; 02/02/19 09:06 PM.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,491
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,491
Perfect ...
Originally Posted by bambooninja
I have a friend who has a CLP-645 so I need to ask if I can stop by and play it sometime. It will be nice to have a true home environment experience.

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
Peggy,
NWX on the CLP-645 is substantially better than the GH3X on the CLP-635. I don't know quite what Yamaha did (they have the same pivot length, I believe), but NWX felt lighter and easier to play. It hardly seems that adding some wood (NWX still has a lot of plastic) would make such a difference, but Yamaha might have tweaked the action in other ways.

Honestly, I didn't feel any difference between NWX on the CLP-645 or CVP-705 or CSP-170, but you should confirm this for yourself.

The NU1X action is straight from a Yamaha upright piano and its pivot length is therefore much shorter than on the Clavinovas that try to simulate a grand piano action. Perhaps that is what you disliked; I noticed the difference immediately.

Make friends with your local dealer; they vary a lot in temperament and not all hover around you. Mine just offers me refreshments and pleasant conversation when I'm taking a break*, having quickly figured out that I know all the specs and play at an intermediate level.
Best wishes,
Lotus

*I spent three hours testing pianos on Monday and two hours yesterday, so need the occasional break!

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 32
B
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 32
Three hours + two hours?!! Wow, I'd have to bring a piano book full of music.

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
Ha! I added another hour today, but at another dealer -- this one carries Roland pianos. Unfortunately, a 1-1/2 hour drive each way, so a huge investment in time.

The owner did not hover and seemed a nice man, but bashed Yamaha and Kawai so much that it left me with an unpleasant feeling. And with such obvious untruths -- you can't get Yamaha or Kawai parts after five years, the best Kawai digital action is terrible, the Yamaha $15,000 digital grand sounds horrible, etc.

Since I have played Kawai's Grand Feel II action, which is lovely (light and buttery-smooth), and will be playing a Yamaha AvantGrand N3X in a couple of weeks, I just let him talk. But this is what gives dealers a bad reputation. It detracted from the good Roland piano I played, which could stand on its own merits.

So I can see the attraction of Costco -- no hard sell, a price well below the marked price at a dealer ($2,900 vs. $3,500 for the CLP-645, for example), plus a no-hassle return policy and whatever additional membership/card benefits you may have. Hope that your new piano brings much happiness to you and your kids!

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 576
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 576
If I am not wrong the mechanism for the GH3X is the same as NWX, so it may be a case the latter is lighter due to wood being less dense than plastic. Personally, I've tried the CVP-709GP at a store and the feel is exactly the same as my CLP-645.


Yamaha AvantGrand N1X
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 156
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 156
Also, there's actual mechanical feel and perceived feel. The same action can be perceived different due to different quality voices and different settings. Probably also due to different looks to a lesser degree.

MacMacMac is a very experienced user, so I'm sure that wasn't the case for him and the GH action test. I'm just throwing it out there.

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,279
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,279
Originally Posted by elendil
Also, there's actual mechanical feel and perceived feel. The same action can be perceived different due to different quality voices and different settings. Probably also due to different looks to a lesser degree.

A wooden action also has a different smell. That adds a lot, even if the wood doesn't look too refined. smile


Yamaha P-515
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 248
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 248
Perceived feel can be very different even on the same DP. I could for instance imagine having a different feel on a P515 than on the 645 due to the cabinet and the ability to "lean" into the keys. Also the sound may make you percieve it different.

Im not sure if I would say that theres a chance that you will hate the NWX on the 645 if you liked ot on the CVP, but if you have any chance you should try it out smile

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,283
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,283
Originally Posted by bambooninja
I went to a Costco demo of Yamahas. They did not have a CLP-645 on display so the rep suggested I play the CVP-705 since it is also NWX. So my question is whether the feel is the same or very close across the Yamaha models or did I need to find a store if I want to test the CLP-645 before make my decision?

Thanks


1) Were the touch sensitivity settings on the two models set identically?
2) Did you play identical sound samples or do the two models have different sound chips?
3) The actions might both be NXW actions, but are the sensors the same?
4) What other instruments did you test when you went to test the CVP? We compare to what's in front of us firstly!

All of these factors will influence how the action feels to play.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 311
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 311
I tried the Yamaha P-45 and the Yamaha P-125 at the same store right next to each other. And even though they are both advertised to have the same GHS action, I felt that the P-45 GHS action was a little bit heavier and stiffer whereas the P-125 was lighter and 'looser'. I preferred the action on the P-45 but ended up getting the P-125 for its built-in USB audio interface. Based on this experience, I wouldn't be surprised if different models with the same action (say NWX in the P-515 and CLP-645 or the NW-GH in the CP4 and CP88) might end up feeling a little different.



Yamaha P-125, Pianoteq 6, Ravenscroft 275 VST, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
L
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
It could simply be the result of how long the pianos have been on display.

I previously noticed that the same model (Yamaha DGX-660) felt slightly different at two stores. One had been unboxed in front of me and I was the first to play it. The other had been on display for months and the keys felt lighter and looser.

My piano probably feels a little different from when I first bought it, after a couple of hours of practice every day. Though I haven't noticed any change, it could be gradual over time.

If I recall correctly, "Peterws" had floated a theory that the GHS action feels different on a DGX vs. a P-series piano because the DGX body is stiffer. The DGX has an additional beam supporting its larger and heavier body, so there may be some merit to this theory.

I wouldn't be surprised if NWX on a slab (P-515) vs. a console (CLP-645) feels slightly different because of the body style differences. As others have pointed out, a lot of factors contribute to the overall perception of an instrument!

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,429
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,429
I would agree about the DGX GHS. It's always felt a bit more solid to me than the same action in a P.

GH+ level slabs from Yamaha have always felt extremely solid though. Taking individual tolerances in mind, I do think it's fair to play an NWX action in one DP and expect it to be fairly consistent with another.

And Costco should have a generous return policy, right?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 664
Tyr Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 664
I've found the NWX in the predecessor CLP-545 more stiff than in the current CLP-645.


Kawai: NV5 | VPC1
Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | VI Labs: Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Keysuite Grand | Minigrand
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,279
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,279
Originally Posted by halherta
I tried the Yamaha P-45 and the Yamaha P-125 at the same store right next to each other. And even though they are both advertised to have the same GHS action, I felt that the P-45 GHS action was a little bit heavier and stiffer whereas the P-125 was lighter and 'looser'.

The P-45 action is obviously more cost optimized, featuring no hinges, instead the pivot seems to be just flexible plastic, as seen on YouTube videos.

Which might support the impression, that a flexible plastic hinge might be stiffer than an actual hinge.

While I couldn't compare CLP-645 and P-515 side by side. I can tell from memory that both NWX actions feel about the same - like a stronger weighted upright piano action.


Yamaha P-515
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 50
G
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by JoeT

The P-45 action is obviously more cost optimized, featuring no hinges, instead the pivot seems to be just flexible plastic, as seen on YouTube videos.

Which might support the impression, that a flexible plastic hinge might be stiffer than an actual hinge.


I haven't seen any cut-aways myself, but such a difference in the hinge mechanization would seem to be substantial enough to completely invalidate calling those actions both by the same name!


They say extra practice can make up for modesty of talent (up to a point) - I sure hope so...
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
KORG SP170S PANEL REMOVAL?
by Prof. Piano - 05/11/21 11:59 PM
KORG SP170S PANEL REMOVAL?
by Prof. Piano - 05/11/21 11:50 PM
WTC C-maj fugue (bk 1) analysis question
by hawgdriver - 05/11/21 10:55 PM
DP model numbers and years sold?
by ObtuseMoose - 05/11/21 10:45 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,876
Posts3,092,482
Members101,481
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5