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For comparison here's a real Steinway in a somewhat similar jazz fusion context:

https://soundcloud.com/clothearednincompoop/steinwayfusion/s-84IEc

(Unless some automatic content matching catches it. It is under copyright...but hey. Just a short clip for educational porpoises.)

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Yep I can tell EssBrace is noticing the same things as me. I haven't listened with my best headphones yet though. I'd definitely still considering buying one though, because the onboard sounds aren't critical. My PX-330 is getting old now.

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I think Casio should also consider adding some 76/73-keys to either their new Privia or CDP lines with the same action. Sure the 88 keys are very light and compact, but remove some of the keys and you'll have something even more portable and light. From what I've seen in the forums, many would buy a 76/73 keys version.



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I'd love a 76 key A-C version for sure - but I'm in the minority.

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Originally Posted by halherta
From what I've seen in the forums, many would buy a 76/73 keys version.


Yes, that would be cool, but I assume this would require new plastic moulds to be produced for the lower and upper case, so is perhaps unlikely to happen.

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Originally Posted by aCaPellA
On the Japanese Casio site, there is a Soundcloud demo "PX - S3000 Demo". Sounds good to me, especially for the price.

https://casio.jp/emi/products/pxs3000/

Thanks for that link. I changed the URL and there's a 1000 sound file as well:

https://casio.jp/emi/products/pxs1000/

Last edited by Steve.L; 01/28/19 08:15 PM.
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They both look interesting, but if I 'need' a DP (may happen soon) then it will be for home use and shaving off a few inches in depth won't make any difference, but the idea of a 'slab' (or whatever you call it) appeals in case of having to return it, get it fixed etc.. On the contrary, adding a few inches in depth and providing longer keys would be more tempting, although until more is known about how well the keys work I guess commenting on that is jumping the gun.
I like the idea of the 3 pedal unit not being attached to the stand but wonder if free-standing units should be designed so that they can be 'tethered' in some way to whatever stand / support is used. My pedal is reasonably static on some surfaces but is pretty mobile others and wonder how much fun it would be to chase a 3 pedal unit around the floor!

Last edited by petebfrance; 01/28/19 08:19 PM.

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-->Listen to these Demos!<--

Casio Soundcloud PX-S3000 WoW!

Casio Soundcloud PX-S3000

Casio Soundcloud PX-S1000 Nice!

Casio Soundcloud PX-S1000

Last edited by brooster; 01/28/19 11:06 PM.

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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
For comparison here's a real Steinway in a somewhat similar jazz fusion context:

https://soundcloud.com/clothearednincompoop/steinwayfusion/s-84IEc

(Unless some automatic content matching catches it. It is under copyright...but hey. Just a short clip for educational porpoises.)


This is Casio's Hybrid GP-500 in a LIVE jazz context recorded at NAMM. The PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 have nearly all of the nuance and detail from the GP-500 plus an improved version of the Hamburg sample.



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I don't think the 73 key version of casio would be ever build - that would be a requirement of gigging musicians and I don't think somehow these people are the ones buying privias. Haven't seen that many privias on stage (not even 5s) and I had been on stage as a tech with 50 or more well known groups.
People mostly buy privias for kids to practice at home and the 88 key is an requirement. Casio has the market cornered and I assume on $500 piano the margins are pretty slim. The fact that the new S privias come pretty close to the premium sound of the GP is actually awesome and it shows which market is casio chasing now. Yep, despite the GP being nice and shiny I haven't seen those much in music halls either over here (japan may be different, I don't know). It is either yamaha or kawai. Probably casio knows who is their market now.


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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by RosemaryGirl
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by sullivang
I haven't read all the replies - but: it's excellent that there is now a standalone three-pedal unit, but....I'm not very impressed with the AP sounds.

Greg.


I agree. The main piano sound is still the same sample. They may be processing it differently but there's the unmistakeable Casio plinky-plonky sound in the mid range. There's another one off my list!....


Can you guys be more specific as to what you mean sound-wise, for the benefit of my Boeotian ears… How could you qualify that bad sound? Would you have a more vivid description than "plinky-plonk". I'm new to this all and trying to determine what a good sound is in a DP trying to mimic an acoustic piano.

Thanks.


Sorry, that's just how I've always heard the Casio piano tone...it is their Steinway sample. It is also on their GP series of console digital uprights as Hamburg Grand.

In the upper mids, about an octave and a half or so above middle C, I hear it as a very one dimensional 'plink' type of sound, lacking in nuance or depth. It's the attack sound in a few notes. Or I should say it comes across as the attack with no body or depth behind it. It sounds okay in some of the other registers but for me that overly simplistic tone, which I could also describe as being 'toy-like' in the mids is a deal breaker. I'm just quite sensitive to certain issues in piano sounds I'm afraid.

Casios also used to suffer from a distinct lack of decay time, or 'ring time'. I don't know whether they rectified that on their newest sound engine.


For me that range on Casio has also been consistently problematic over the years, but I wouldn't describe it in these terms. I hear it as a harsh, almost buzz like sound. It's very difficult to describe but it is almost like a very thin and mechanical sound is looping over and over.

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To my ears all digital pianos that I've heard sound very thin and mechanical (some more than others but that thinness mechanical / artificial sound is always there). None come anywhere close to a real acoustic piano (upright or grand). The closest I could get to the real thing sound wise was with the use of VSTs.

Last edited by halherta; 01/29/19 11:40 PM.


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It also depends on how you listen to the real piano, the room it is in it and if you recording how you mic them. The last part is of course most problematic and more like an art by itself. The soundboard on acoustic piano is huge - even the biggest speakers cannot compare to it, it vibrates the air far differently than any directional speakers could. It can fill a large room without deafening the player unlike digital piano that may scream to player ears but sound gets quickly absorbed by the room for anybody else. So yes, sitting behind real piano and digital piano will give you way different feel, sound and experience. It should.
This all changes when you want to mic and record the piano or use piano on stage with a band. Without good sound engineer you will likely end up far worse than with a digital piano and its sound output.
I say digital pianos are category by themselves and it changed the music dramatically. Anybody can afford to have decent piano sound now.


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SO does anyone know when these will be released in the US?

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Scheduled for the end of February.

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Originally Posted by oscar1
I don't think the 73 key version of casio would be ever build - that would be a requirement of gigging musicians and I don't think somehow these people are the ones buying privias. Haven't seen that many privias on stage (not even 5s) and I had been on stage as a tech with 50 or more well known groups.
People mostly buy privias for kids to practice at home and the 88 key is an requirement. Casio has the market cornered and I assume on $500 piano the margins are pretty slim. The fact that the new S privias come pretty close to the premium sound of the GP is actually awesome and it shows which market is casio chasing now. Yep, despite the GP being nice and shiny I haven't seen those much in music halls either over here (japan may be different, I don't know). It is either yamaha or kawai. Probably casio knows who is their market now.


I've seen plenty of gigging musician's use the PX-560 at live gigs.I'm also seeing more digital piano manufacturers release 68/73/76 key pianos not just for the gigging musicians as is the case with the yamaha CP88 or Dexibell VIVO S1, but also for the home market such as Yamaha's P-121. I think it makes some sense for Casio to release a 73 key version of one of its Privia models, Perhaps an upcoming (I'm speculating here!!!) stage piano PX-S5000/7000 models that would offer even more portability to go with the new actions and sounds.

I myself prefer 88 keys, But others; specially gigging musicians but also some home players may prefer 73 keys.



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Originally Posted by halherta
I'm also seeing more digital piano manufacturers release 68/73/76 key pianos not just for the gigging musicians as is the case with the yamaha CP88 or Dexibell VIVO S1, but also for the home market such as Yamaha's P-121.

One more variable is that the initial tooling for new plastic molds is very expensive (more so the larger and more substantial they get), so you have to have high confidence that you will be able to use the chassis for a high quantity of units to make back that fabrication cost. I think that's why the vast majority of these sub-88 hammer action board's you're talking about are metal chassis boards. (Nord, Korg, and Kurzweil 7x-key hammer action boards fall into this category as well.) The "startup cost" for creating a 7x version of an 88-key metal board is much lower than for creating a 7x version of an 88-key plastic board. So this is something that makes it harder for Casio to do a 7x-key Privia. They'd have to be confident of high volume sales of 7x-key boards, or they would have to shift from plastic to metal chassis. And unless you go with high priced metal like aluminum (not feasible if you're aiming for Casio-like retail prices), this also means you end up with a much heavier board, which would mean the plastic chassis 88, despite being longer, would still be the more "portable" board.

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I wonder if this means there are plans to change the PX and AP furniture models with anything from these - the sounds, the key action. I'd have thought the sounds perhaps, but not sure how the shorter keys would go down with potential buyers. Should be interesting.


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Thanks @Kawai James & @anotherscott for bringing up the tooling startup cost for the plastic moulds needed for plastic chassis vs metal/aluminium chassis. I was unaware of this. This may very well be a major impediment to making a 73-key Privia.

But doesn't the Yamaha P-121 (with 73 keys) have a plastic enclosure? So Yamaha seemed to feel that it was worth it despite the cost. I know that Yamaha's generally sell a tonne of entry level keyboards such as the P-125 and P-121, But I'm also certain that Casio sells a tonne as well.

Last edited by halherta; 02/03/19 11:57 AM.


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Originally Posted by halherta
But doesn't the Yamaha P-121 (with 73 keys) have a plastic enclosure? So Yamaha seemed to feel that it was worth it despite the cost.
I think the P121 is plastic. Which is why I said "vast majority" and not "all." ;-) Yamaha has decided to take the gamble, and since they are probably the highest volume seller, plus their boards tend to sell for a bit of a premium over Casio's, it was probably a safer bet for them than for anyone else. If Casio sees Yamaha selling a ton of P-121, that might provide the impetus for them to compete in that market as well.

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