2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Week Deals
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
78 members (8ude, An Old Square, 36251, Bellicapelli, bobrunyan, Abdol, 22 invisible), 720 guests, and 488 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#2802263 01/15/19 12:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,478
M
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,478
[Linked Image]




Last edited by Marko in Boston; 01/15/19 12:10 PM.
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 432
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 432
But which action?

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 165
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 165
It's BHS which means Balanced Hammer Standard and I suspect it can be modified GHS (made to not be graded), due to the word "standard", unfortunately. It can be true because of very low weight of the instrument - 13,1 kg.

Some people think this is the action from Montage 8 or the 8 versions of Motifs, or S series, described as Balanced Hammer Effect Keyboard. I think that BHE is a non-graded version of Graded Hammer (GH), knows also as Graded Hammer Effect (GHE), never before described as "standard".

So, why Yamaha described the key action of CP73 as "standard"?


Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP, Korg SV-2 73, Hammond XK-1c
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,650
C
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,650
There _is_ a Yamaha "Graded Hammer Standard" (GHS) action. Perhaps if you make it un-graded, it becomes "Balanced Hammer Standard" ?

The GHS action is used in a bunch of low-end Yamaha DP's, and some 88-key synths and workstations, I believe.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 432
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 432
Surely hope this isn’t the case.
I really want a CP73 with a good action and I absolutely dislike the GHS action in their MODX8.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 614
K
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 614
I seriously doubt this will feel anything like the MODX8. This is meant to to have an action more like an electric piano than a acoustic grand.
At this price point, I don't believe they would put in there cheaper action. For those who have to have an acoustic grand action there is the CP88.
How many acoustic grands have you seen with 73 keys? This looks to me like they were aiming straight at Korgs Grandstage 73 and SV1- 73 when they designed this.
I would bet it feels better than Korgs RH3.


A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....
Kbeaumont #2803278 01/17/19 07:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 432
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 432
Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
I seriously doubt this will feel anything like the MODX8. This is meant to to have an action more like an electric piano than a acoustic grand.
At this price point, I don't believe they would put in there cheaper action. For those who have to have an acoustic grand action there is the CP88.
How many acoustic grands have you seen with 73 keys? This looks to me like they were aiming straight at Korgs Grandstage 73 and SV1- 73 when they designed this.
I would bet it feels better than Korgs RH3.


I hope so.
Yet the CP73 action is not called BHE (Balanced Hammer Effect) as in Montage 6/7 but BHS (Balanced Hammer Standard) and this could mean it’s inferior similar to the way MODX8’s GHS (Graded Hammer Standard) is inferior to GHE (Graded Hammer Standard).

Kbeaumont #2803641 01/18/19 03:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,184
A
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,184
Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
This is meant to to have an action more like an electric piano than a acoustic grand.

I suspect that may simply be a reference to its hammer action being balanced rather than graded.

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,746
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,746
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
This is meant to to have an action more like an electric piano than a acoustic grand.

I suspect that may simply be a reference to its hammer action being balanced rather than graded.


It's both, isn't it? The use of non-graded hammer actions in these stage pianos is typically to serve as a compromise between an acoustic piano feel, and an electric piano, synth or organ feel.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,184
A
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,184
My point was simply that the 88's graded hammer action is designed to more closely resemble an acoustic piano, while the 73's balanced hammer action would more closely resemble an electric piano, simply in terms of the relative feel of the keys across the keyboard. Neither is well suited to organ, and I wouldn't worry about which sucks less. ;-) But on that topic, there are some hammer actions that are better than others if you must play organ from them... but there is not necessarily any correlation between that and whether or not they are graded. The graded MP7 is better for organ than any of the balanced hammer actions I've seen from Yamaha. Amount of force needed to trigger a note, trigger point, speed of return, shape of the edges of the keys, are all relevant variables.

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 110
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 110
I've both played it and asked Blake Angelos what action it has. He said "it is the same thing that is in the Montage 8, but without aftertouch" so that is my source.


Nord Electro 5D, Roland RD-2000, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,184
A
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,184
Originally Posted by Macsaint777
I've both played it and asked Blake Angelos what action it has. He said "it is the same thing that is in the Montage 8, but without aftertouch" so that is my source.

I wonder, then, whether/how it is different from the action in the MO8? That was BHE (like Montage 8) except without aftertouch.

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,746
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,746
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Macsaint777
I've both played it and asked Blake Angelos what action it has. He said "it is the same thing that is in the Montage 8, but without aftertouch" so that is my source.

I wonder, then, whether/how it is different from the action in the MO8? That was BHE (like Montage 8) except without aftertouch.


Yes, it would be an unfortunate naming scheme if "Balance Hammer Effect" meant a "Graded Hammer" action with aftertouch, and "Balanced Hammer Standard" means a "Graded Hammer" action WITHOUT aftertouch, as opposed to a "Graded Hammer Standard" action with or without aftertouch smile Wait, what were we talking about again?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 432
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 432
No sympathetic resonance? Really?

Last edited by Fleer; 01/18/19 09:43 PM.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,267
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,267
€1799 in Thomann. For comparison, €2149 for Nord Electro 6 HP, €2299 for CP88.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Fleer #2803832 01/19/19 04:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,267
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,267
Originally Posted by Fleer
No sympathetic resonance? Really?

Who needs string resonance for a lightweight 73-key gigging board? It has damper resonance which is the one that could eventually be heard by a live audience smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
CyberGene #2803881 01/19/19 08:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 432
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 432
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Fleer
No sympathetic resonance? Really?

Who needs string resonance for a lightweight 73-key gigging board? It has damper resonance which is the one that could eventually be heard by a live audience smile

I’d like to use it in my studio too, it’s that portable wink

CyberGene #2803932 01/19/19 10:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,746
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,746
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Fleer
No sympathetic resonance? Really?

Who needs string resonance for a lightweight 73-key gigging board? It has damper resonance which is the one that could eventually be heard by a live audience smile


I agree it's not strictly needed in a portable, chopped board. But...why exclude it? I can't imagine it costs that much to implement a VRM or other package that Yamaha had already had for years, and which already exists on their other, cheaper portable instruments? This particular detail seems a bit nickel-and-dimey to me--unnecessary product segmentation.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Gombessa #2804095 01/19/19 04:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 35
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Fleer
No sympathetic resonance? Really?

Who needs string resonance for a lightweight 73-key gigging board? It has damper resonance which is the one that could eventually be heard by a live audience smile


I agree it's not strictly needed in a portable, chopped board. But...why exclude it? I can't imagine it costs that much to implement a VRM or other package that Yamaha had already had for years, and which already exists on their other, cheaper portable instruments? This particular detail seems a bit nickel-and-dimey to me--unnecessary product segmentation.


It looks Yamaha dropped much more important features than "string resonance" in CP73/88, like SCM sound modelling for example. (smooth timbre transition between samples)

Gombessa #2804136 01/19/19 06:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,184
A
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,184
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Fleer
No sympathetic resonance? Really?

Who needs string resonance for a lightweight 73-key gigging board? It has damper resonance which is the one that could eventually be heard by a live audience smile


I agree it's not strictly needed in a portable, chopped board. But...why exclude it? I can't imagine it costs that much to implement a VRM or other package that Yamaha had already had for years, and which already exists on their other, cheaper portable instruments? This particular detail seems a bit nickel-and-dimey to me--unnecessary product segmentation.

My guess is that the CP73/88 sound engine is derived from the MODX, which was derived from the Montage... and those instruments didn't have it, so this one doesn't. You can't necessarily just "glue" code from one underlying platform to another. Just because they implemented it on other models doesn't mean that the Montage architecture could support it.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Working while pregnant
by Elsbels - 12/07/21 07:41 AM
Improve sound of Casiotone CT-S1
by Charline - 12/07/21 07:28 AM
Which pedals are compatible with Yamaha P-515?
by Olie222 - 12/07/21 05:32 AM
Constant instrument hopping: the recorder
by meghdad - 12/07/21 04:39 AM
Es920 production stopped??
by playplayplay - 12/07/21 12:07 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,425
Posts3,151,166
Members103,545
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5