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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

That's an extreme viewpoint. These videos show some sort of accomplishment. At different levels to be sure. I don't think it is fair to diss them for what they've done simply because they didn't take a traditional path. Now, you can artistically judge the results, but I think it's wrong to scoff at their effort.


I think you misunderstand me, sir!

I'm certainly not criticising the performances.

It's the claim that this is achievable on "20 minutes a day" or "45 minutes a day in six weeks" for someone that has never touched a piano before, that I'm criticising. The path that these performers took is of no concern to me. It's the claim as to how others can do it that slightly baffles me.

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Originally Posted by Zaphod
I think you misunderstand me, sir!

I'm certainly not criticising the performances.

It's the claim that this is achievable on "20 minutes a day" or "45 minutes a day in six weeks" for someone that has never touched a piano before, that I'm criticising. The path that these performers took is of no concern to me. It's the claim as to how others can do it that slightly baffles me.

I did! Thanks for clarifying! I agree with you that the claim is mystifying, as I mentioned in my comment about 20mins a day. The performances themselves are impressive though, even if they aren't fully artistic/professional. Excellent efforts.


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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I did! Thanks for clarifying! I agree with you that the claim is mystifying, as I mentioned in my comment about 20mins a day. The performances themselves are impressive though, even if they aren't fully artistic/professional. Excellent efforts.


No worries. We're on the same page with this one, I think.

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Originally Posted by sinophilia
Originally Posted by Moo :)
I had a look at reddit and most of them are relative beginners playing the same 3 pieces.
- moonlight sonata movement 3
- La Campanella
- fantasie impromptu
Almost always teenager or young men playing as fast as possible.

Exactly! It's the same everywhere, and every now and then one of them gets to this forum. They usually play a mix of Bach WTC 1, Mozart's Alla Turca, Yann Tiersen, and videogame themes.

Young people are always impatient. Saw a serious post on Reddit's r/piano that made me smile: "I started piano when I was six. I am only playing grade 8 ABRSM now that I am 16. Sucks to start late."

This in turn made me think of this earlier hilarious thread in r/piano: "My son turned 6 months old yesterday, is it too late for him to become a professional pianist?" grin


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Originally Posted by Zaphod




Look from about 2:15 onwards - apparently anyone, even if they have never played piano before, and can't read music, can learn to play a Bach prelude within six weeks, if they practise for 45 minutes a day. Oh yeah, and you don't need a piano, you just need an electric keyboard. Which as we all know by scouring this forum, definitely costs only 30 dollars.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what he says, right? If it is, he's insane, and James Rhodes fans please forgive me for saying that. Absolutely mad as a box of frogs.
What makes you think it's not possible?

Someone would only have to memorize around 7 bars/week and since most of the bars consist of just one or two chords that doesn't seem so difficult even if a person has never touched a piano. Apparently, a lot of people who can't read music learn much more complex pieces from the kind of YouTube videos that show a keyboard with the keys highlighted when they're played. And it's certainly true that one does not need an acoustic piano and even the cheapest keyboard would work.

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Originally Posted by sinophilia
Originally Posted by Moo :)
I had a look at reddit and most of them are relative beginners playing the same 3 pieces.

- moonlight sonata movement 3
- La Campanella
- fantasie impromptu

Almost always teenager or young men playing as fast as possible.


Exactly! It's the same everywhere, and every now and then one of them gets to this forum. They usually play a mix of Bach WTC 1, Mozart's Alla Turca, Yann Tiersen, and videogame themes. Some are good, they're young and motivated and they learn quickly, but I wonder how many of them will still be playing the piano in a few years' time. I used to do the same as a teenager, get overly enthusiastic about something and then forget about it in no time, and move on to my next "passion".
I don't see anything wrong with any of the above. If they lose interest in piano to pursue another passion that's perfectly reasonable, I think.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
What makes you think it's not possible?


When did I say it wasn't possible? Possible, yes. For a tiny minority of people. Probable, highly unlikely.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Apparently, a lot of people who can't read music learn much more complex pieces from the kind of YouTube videos that show a keyboard with the keys highlighted when they're played.


When you say "A lot" - how many roughly do you mean? I think this confirmation bias, as we only see the tiny proportion of people that have managed it.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
And it's certainly true that one does not need an acoustic piano and even the cheapest keyboard would work.


Could you suggest an example of a keyboard that costs 30 dollars that would enable one to learn this and then perform it "At a party on a piano" that costs 30 dollars, as Rhodes claims?

Rhodes' claim is not that "some people" can do it. Some people who have a fair amount of undiscovered natural talent could maybe just about fumble through it. Rhodes' claim is that "anyone" could do it. This is, and I stand by my statement, completely insane.

I think we as pianists often forget just how difficult it is to start if one has never touched a keyboard before and doesn't know how to read music.

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Originally Posted by Zaphod
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Apparently, a lot of people who can't read music learn much more complex pieces from the kind of YouTube videos that show a keyboard with the keys highlighted when they're played.

When you say "A lot" - how many roughly do you mean? I think this confirmation bias, as we only see the tiny proportion of people that have managed it.

In my opinion, pianoloverus is right about this. If you go to a forum more representative of the broader population than PW, like Reddit r/piano, then you see a huge number of piano starters learning songs/pieces like Moonlight Mvt 3 from Synthesia, who have never even bothered to learn to read sheet music, however, debate over its long-term efficacy rages even there.

Originally Posted by Zaphod
I think we as pianists often forget just how difficult it is to start if one has never touched a keyboard before and doesn't know how to read music.

This is not true with Synthesia. Argue about its pedagogical weaknesses, but it's a very egalitarian tool bringing music-making to those who only have $30 to spend on a keyboard.


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"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by Zaphod
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
What makes you think it's not possible?


When did I say it wasn't possible? Possible, yes. For a tiny minority of people. Probable, highly unlikely.
I can't put a percentage on how many would be successful but I certainly don't think it's only a tiny minority. I gave specific reasons about why I thought someone could memorize this specific piece of some 40 some measures in 6 weeks.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Apparently, a lot of people who can't read music learn much more complex pieces from the kind of YouTube videos that show a keyboard with the keys highlighted when they're played.


Originally Posted by Zaphod
When you say "A lot" - how many roughly do you mean? I think this confirmation bias, as we only see the tiny proportion of people that have managed it.
I don't know who you're referring to when you say "we only see". If someone learned a piece this way we wouldn't be able to know unless they mentioned it. If we just saw a performance we couldn't tell if they learned it from the score or from Synthesia. I do know that even on sites with advanced jazz arrangements I see these Synthesia videos. They seem ubiquitous on YouTube and that suggests many people use them. They're much more common on non classical videos than for classical pieces.

Originally Posted by Zaphod
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
And it's certainly true that one does not need an acoustic piano and even the cheapest keyboard would work.


Could you suggest an example of a keyboard that costs 30 dollars that would enable one to learn this and then perform it "At a party on a piano" that costs 30 dollars, as Rhodes claims?


Rhodes' claim is not that "some people" can do it. Some people who have a fair amount of undiscovered natural talent could maybe just about fumble through it. Rhodes' claim is that "anyone" could do it. This is, and I stand by my statement, completely insane.
[/quote]His claim that anyone can do it is a bit of hyperbole but I don't think it's anywhere near only a tiny percentage as you claim. The price of the keyboard is also hyperbole but I think one can find one for a couple of hundred dollars. Here's one for $119. https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-PSR-E...;keywords=cheap+piano+keyboard&psc=1

I'm for anything that encourages people's interest in music, especially classical. Rhodes has a following that, because of his story and approach to concerts, includes people who might normally be put off by classical music. The important thing is that Rhodes loves this music and is trying to encourage people to give it a try.
[/b][b]

Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/12/18 02:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by Zaphod

Could you suggest an example of a keyboard that costs 30 dollars that would enable one to learn this and then perform it "At a party on a piano" that costs 30 dollars, as Rhodes claims?

Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7TGMMuVjCs

This is a link to the video by some Swede going by the moniker "Simon the Magpie". The title is "Expensive Gear Wont Improve Your Music", and subtitle is "20$ Crap Synth is enough".

His target audience is however slightly more advanced: people who already play and want to record their own compositions.

But performing Bach on it would certainly work at a party, just by the sheer contrast.

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Anyone vs Some-people - poor wording !
Would "Most People" be better
Or better - Motivate people.
Or - People with an average IQ
From my own experience I'd say Motivated people with a reasonable IQ !!
I have a grand daughter and at age 5 I taught her " SomeWhere Over the Rainbow" both hands'
Motivation - we'd go to the ToyShop where she would select a toy which she would cary home in a bag and place on top of the piano.
I would show her the notes for one or two bars and once she could play these ten times thru - Then Voila ! the toy was hers .
She is now 16 and still knows the tune inspite of learnig guitar and not piano.

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Oh... oh.... how to resist buying this.... whew. the urge passed. smile


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Well I guess I'd meet you lot halfway on this James Rhodes thing then. Perhaps not as many people can do it that he claims, and more people can do it than I claim. As we know, the truth always lies somewhere inbetween.

My concern is giving people false hope. However, that is balanced by an equal concern of giving them positive hope.

And Tyrone, just buy the bloody book already. You know you're going to eventually anyway cool

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Originally Posted by Zaphod
And Tyrone, just buy the bloody book already. You know you're going to eventually anyway cool

Dag nabbit! That wasn't helpful!

I bought the book frown

You enabler! wink


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Zaphod
And Tyrone, just buy the bloody book already. You know you're going to eventually anyway cool

Dag nabbit! That wasn't helpful!

I bought the book frown

You enabler! wink

Buying a new music score is never a waste of money.

Trust me. In recent years, I've been learning new pieces - from scores that I bought when I was a student (i.e. decades ago), in the heady days when I thought I will learn them all.......only to discover that they were way beyond my ability.

No longer - I didn't forget about them, even in the intervening years when I had no access to a piano, and after dusting them down (they've lain in a box for a few decades.....), I found that they are now within my grasp, and am now patiently working my way through some wonderful music and getting them into my fingers.

You will too with the Ballades.....one day, if not now. thumb


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Dag nabbit! That wasn't helpful!

I bought the book frown

You enabler! wink


I've got the same situation going on with this. Next few days I think.

Rachmaninov stuff

A moment on the internet, a lifetime on the keyboard.

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Originally Posted by Zaphod
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Dag nabbit! That wasn't helpful!

I bought the book frown

You enabler! wink
I've got the same situation going on with this. Next few days I think.

Rachmaninov stuff

A moment on the internet, a lifetime on the keyboard.

Turnabout is fair play. Zaphod, just buy it already. You know you want it. wink Get it over with and you won't think about it again smile


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by bennevis
You will too with the Ballades.....one day, if not now. thumb

Sigh... yes, it can have the spot on my shelf right next to my copy of the Alan Rusbridger book! eek


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Turnabout is fair play. Zaphod, just buy it already. You know you want it. wink Get it over with and you won't think about it again smile


The book I was going to buy

Notice what it says in the top right - "Out of stock at the uk distributor. Could be six weeks or more".

cry cry cry mad

Well balls to that, I'm going to find another shop then. Watch this space! You with your shiny new book, and me sitting here with nothing, I won't have it, sir!

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Originally Posted by Zaphod
Well balls to that, I'm going to find another shop then. Watch this space! You with your shiny new book, and me sitting here with nothing, I won't have it, sir!

Well, merely because I want to see you separated from your money too, this shop ships to the UK and is taking orders for the reprints now wink


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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