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Joined: Aug 2018
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Beginning search for grand piano:
Please note that I will not be able to actually buy a grand piano until January, 2019, as the money becomes available and have narrowed down the potential choices for the grands I am currently interested in as follows:
[Spending limit is going to be right around $15K]
1) Baldwin SF-10 2) Mason & Hamlin 3) Yamaha 4) Kawai
Have put the Baldwin SF-10 as the top choice in the list since it is the perfect size grand for my current room of the house and any grand that I do consider should be right around a 7-footer but not any larger. Would also like to consider Mason & Hamlin although I am afraid getting a good one at lower cost (i.e., as used / rebuilt) may not be affordable although will continue to look for one if the price is right. Yamaha and Kawai grands are also a possibility and would want the size to be between 6' 5'' and 7 feet for any piano being considered. I do happen to favor the tone and action of the Baldwin SF-10 primarily as this is going to be the model I am most interested in, overall.
Extra note:
Will be purchasing the piano online and through any given store as "sight unseen" as I will not be able to play test or see the grands in person since there is currently only one piano store locally that I can go to which is not easy to reach as I do not drive and do not have any other nearby friends that could drive me to the store and the distance is far enough (at over 20 miles away) so that a cab ride would cost around $120 round trip fare to and from the store. That being said, it is somewhat unfortunate I do not have the means to make a trip to play test pianos so buying online with careful research is my only option at present.
Due to my spending limit at right around $15K will be looking at mostly used / rebuilt grands as brand new ones are not going to feasible within this budget. I do know that the hammer felts need to be in good shape and to avoid pianos with rusty strings and/or other signs of rust on metal parts, and to rule out things like a cracked soundboard, etc -- as I would prefer a grand that DOES NOT have its original ivory keys as I only want the standard plastic key tops although the synthetic "ivory feel" keys would be okay as I currently have that on my Clavinova CLP-585 digital piano.
Questions:
1) What exactly should I be looking for when buying used / rebuilt pianos and would assume that getting a technician to look it over in advance would be the very first step?
2) Would like to also request recommendations for other grands that are 7-footers and might be good candidates to consider?
Have plenty of time until 2019 before I can seriously make a choice and/or decision to purchase.
Any and/or all input here will be greatly appreciated!
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Where do you live? That might make a difference.
Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927 Very part time piano broker.
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Where do you live? That might make a difference.
Thanks, for the reply: As I am in the US and happen to be only a couple of states away from where you are, actually! (Sorry, as it is wrong to just assume everyone knows your location unless it has been given.)
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Robert Estrin (sp?) at LivingPianos.com will deliver anywhere in the USA...he knows a lot about Baldwin pianos. His youtube videos show used pianos of all types. I almost pulled the trigger on an SD-10 he was selling last month.
SF-10s are built like tanks, I wouldn't worry about consumables like hammers or strings. The strings above D3 are uncoated steel (not stainless), a little rust may be present depending on age. Steel wool or a red brillo pad cleans them easily.
My original Baldwin hammers were so poor I couldn't stand it and replaced them with Renner Blue hammers. They make the piano a gem.
Your tech should inspect the piano and you should too. A cracked bridge, soundboard crack or uncrowned soundboard are troubles you don't want. Good luck.
Just do it. -- Nike
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It is highly inadvisable to buy any piano, particularly a used one, that you have not seen and played in person. Distance shopping is asking for trouble.
That said, you may be able to find a decent Baldwin, Yamaha, or Kawai for around $15k. Most likely, pianos at that price require some work. Also, remember that you will have to pay shipping which can be several hundred up to two thousand dollars. Then there is the cost of tuning and routine care.
I doubt you will find a Mason BB or AA for that price in decent shape.
I own an SF-10 which I was lucky enough to buy in mint condition two years ago. They can be found for 15 or even less, but careful shopping is essential. Many of these are old church or school hall pianos and beat to heck.i paid a bit more for mine and felt the added $$ were justified.
Any used piano should receive a full tech inspection if purchase is contemplated.
Baldwin SF-10 Petrof III Chickering Console (1950s) Associate Member PTG (Chicago chapter)
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Robert Estrin (sp?) at LivingPianos.com will deliver anywhere in the USA...he knows a lot about Baldwin pianos. His youtube videos show used pianos of all types. I almost pulled the trigger on an SD-10 he was selling last month.
SF-10s are built like tanks, I wouldn't worry about consumables like hammers or strings. The strings above D3 are uncoated steel (not stainless), a little rust may be present depending on age. Steel wool or a red brillo pad cleans them easily.
My original Baldwin hammers were so poor I couldn't stand it and replaced them with Renner Blue hammers. They make the piano a gem.
Your tech should inspect the piano and you should too. A cracked bridge, soundboard crack or uncrowned soundboard are troubles you don't want. Good luck. Thanks, for the reply! Yes -- as I am familiar with Robert Estrin's website -- and, I see you are a happy Baldwin SF-10 owner. Question: Does the age of the piano make much a difference when selecting a decent used grand? As I see yours dates from 1979.
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[Does the age of the piano make much a difference when selecting a decent used grand?
Generally, the newer, the better. Here's a 1998 Baldwin SF-10 for $15K. If I were in the market I'd strongly consider this one. https://carusopianos.com/browse-pia...0-7-semi-concert-grand-piano-1998-detailI found and coordinated the purchase of a 1995 SF-10 for our church - from a local private seller. We paid $10K five years ago. We haven't had a bit of trouble with it. The only maintenance has been annual tunings. The Renner action is great and the tone is beautiful. !!
Last edited by Carey; 08/16/18 07:35 PM.
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[Does the age of the piano make much a difference when selecting a decent used grand?
Generally, the newer, the better. Here's a 1998 Baldwin SF-10 for $15K. If I were in the market I'd strongly consider this one. https://carusopianos.com/browse-pia...0-7-semi-concert-grand-piano-1998-detailI found and coordinated the purchase of a 1995 SF-10 for our church - from a local private seller. We paid $10K five years ago. We haven't had a bit of trouble with it. The only maintenance has been annual tunings. The Renner action is great and the tone is beautiful. !! @Carey, Thanks for the link as I have already seen this particular SF-10 for sale although my only issue is that I cannot buy anything right now (as mentioned in the original post) although sure would wish something like this would be available at 6 months from now in January 2019 as I will have additional money available. As I receive a yearly income based upon a trust account which is received as direct deposit funds. Please do stay posted to this thread as I probably will have to resurrect it again much later in the year and see as to what SF-10's are available at that time as it is not very likely the grand shown in the link above would still be available in 6 months time. As for now -- can only look and get more ideas. Appreciate all the replies so far!
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That said, you may be able to find a decent Baldwin, Yamaha, or Kawai for around $15k. Most likely, pianos at that price require some work. Also, remember that you will have to pay shipping which can be several hundred up to two thousand dollars. Then there is the cost of tuning and routine care. @Duke of Dunning, I am well aware of the cost of long distance piano moving although I may have the option of locating an SF-10 though a store that is approximately 140 miles away (in my state) and they could easily deliver the piano and return to their store same day with reasonable moving charges (at less cost) as this might be my best option, locally. In this case the closer the seller is -- the better!
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About that SF Carey mentioned, it does look possible but Caruso has had that one for a long time. A piano seeming to be as good as that one should have sold long ago. My question would be why it has not. There could be many reasons, not the least of which is that many folk have no room for a seven footer. That piano may still be around next year.
Given your general area, have you talked to Rich G. At Cunningham? I would give that a try.
Baldwin SF-10 Petrof III Chickering Console (1950s) Associate Member PTG (Chicago chapter)
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Robert Estrin (sp?) at LivingPianos.com will deliver anywhere in the USA...he knows a lot about Baldwin pianos. His youtube videos show used pianos of all types. I almost pulled the trigger on an SD-10 he was selling last month.
SF-10s are built like tanks, I wouldn't worry about consumables like hammers or strings. The strings above D3 are uncoated steel (not stainless), a little rust may be present depending on age. Steel wool or a red brillo pad cleans them easily.
My original Baldwin hammers were so poor I couldn't stand it and replaced them with Renner Blue hammers. They make the piano a gem.
Your tech should inspect the piano and you should too. A cracked bridge, soundboard crack or uncrowned soundboard are troubles you don't want. Good luck. Thanks, for the reply! Yes -- as I am familiar with Robert Estrin's website -- and, I see you are a happy Baldwin SF-10 owner. Question: Does the age of the piano make much a difference when selecting a decent used grand? As I see yours dates from 1979. I also play a 1964 Baldwin SD-10, it's a wonderful piano but it has crack in the treble bridge and the action had to be rebuilt including new hammers ($6000). Somewhere between 40-60yrs pianos can need a lot of work depending on use. But if it was 40yrs old and only played on holidays it might be as good as new.
Just do it. -- Nike
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Given your general area, have you talked to Rich G. At Cunningham? I would give that a try. @Duke of Dunning, Thanks, for the info -- as I will contact Rich at Cunningham Pianos to see if they can be on the look out for an SD-10 around the end of the year (in December) since no purchase can be made until January. Just having to wait is the hardest part, as of now!
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I also play a 1964 Baldwin SD-10, it's a wonderful piano but it has crack in the treble bridge and the action had to be rebuilt including new hammers ($6000). Somewhere between 40-60yrs pianos can need a lot of work depending on use.
But if it was 40yrs old and only played on holidays it might be as good as new.
@Fidel, Going to try and locate the latest model SF-10 available (at least 1980's although a more recent piano would be better) and will have to choose among several stores as it get closer to the time I can make the purchase -- i.e., six months from now, in January. My only concern is going to be moving the piano in the cold conditions of winter and have to hope I can get a decent day when there is no snow and/or ice that would make it difficult for the movers.
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I own an SF-10 which I was lucky enough to buy in mint condition two years ago. They can be found for 15 or even less, but careful shopping is essential. Many of these are old church or school hall pianos and beat to heck.i paid a bit more for mine and felt the added $$ were justified.
@Duke of Dunning, Would like to avoid any grand that was previously owned by a church or institution as you mention since "condition" is obviously the most important thing to look for in obtaining a decent used instrument. Really do not like having to wait 6 months to make a purchase although I am hoping there will be several good pianos to consider at that time.
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Pay close attention to the vertically laminated bridges. There was a period in the 1990s (maybe earlier and maybe later, too) where the bridges would split apart between the laminations.
Eric Gloo Piano Technician Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer Richfield Springs, New York
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Pay close attention to the vertically laminated bridges. There was a period in the 1990s (maybe earlier and maybe later, too) where the bridges would split apart between the laminations. @Eric Gloo, Questions: 1) Can the laminated bridges issue be clearly seen and/or noted by any RPT? 2) And, if this is not right -- should the piano be avoided?
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In addition to the common bridge cracking issue of SD-10 and SF-10's, these Baldwins often have improperly glued soundboards into the rim. Sometimes they didn't get the clamps on fast enough and portions of the soundboard edge are not in solid contact with the rim.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
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In addition to the common bridge cracking issue of SD-10 and SF-10's, these Baldwins often have improperly glued soundboards into the rim. Sometimes they didn't get the clamps on fast enough and portions of the soundboard edge are not in solid contact with the rim. @Ed McMorrow, RPT: Questions: With all of this being a potential problem for the SF-10 then what pianos would you recommend looking for (that is also a 7-footer) which does not have these issues? Should I change my preferred piano brand (i.e., Baldwin) to something else? As I thought the American made Baldwins had solid build quality.
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@Ed McMorrow, RPT: Would like a reply to the questions, above? (You are still online -- with face.)
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Having worked for Baldwin in the 80's, I would recommend avoiding the production during that time forward. The best of the Baldwin SD and SF pianos were built in the late 60's These would need to be rebuilt of course at this point but by the 80's they had very odd and unpredictable issues that will take a really good tech/rebuilder to spot.
Don't buy one of these unless you have had a really qualified tech inspect. And $45,000 is way to much for one that age. The prices will probably be lower.
Look for a good used Steinway B ( just under 7 ft.) instead. Try your local Steinway dealer and see if they have a B C&A artist stock that is used. Your price may be a bit low but if it is 15-20 years old, it would be in that price range. The newer ones will be higher depending on use.
Also I really like the 7 ft Boston pianos that are designed by Steinway. If you have not tried them they are really nice and hold up well in heavy use.
Last edited by S. Phillips; 08/18/18 09:16 AM.
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