2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
48 members (Alan3666, Cutec, Carey, chaplincap, EssBrace, CyberGene, BlakeOR, Emily2Lame, 7 invisible), 1,354 guests, and 621 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 428
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 428
Hi piano lovers!

Currently, I have a Roland FP-4 and it's time to upgrade to a piano with a better keyboard. I see that I need this for technique development (articulation etc.). My criteria are:
- I gig a lot, and have 2 levels of stairs, so need to go lightweight. That's why I excluded Kawai ES8
- I need rhodes and piano sounds, one good for each is enough for practice. I play a lot with VSTs like Pianoteq, so for recording and performance will use my Mac as sound source
- I need speakers since sometimes I need to do some quick rehearsals.

I decided to go with P255, since it's 17.4 kg, has 30W speakers, very good rhodes sound and good piano sound. But... I didn't have opportunity to test it because no shop around has it... but I played a few Yamahas like P115 or YDP-143, so I imagine they sound a bit close.

My strongest doubt is the piano sound, since I'm converting from Roland to Yamaha, and I'm afraid that the piano sound will be too bright for me, especially when practicing jazz. Maybe that's something you get used to or even build your skills on to sound more mellow... I don't know.

Any comments or suggestions?


Roland FP-4
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 813
J
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 813
If weight and bright sound is concerns look into Roland fp60 ,


Yamaha P155, Yamaha P515
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 169
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 169
This opens up another "subjective sound" topic... Having a Roland myself, it was a difficult choice; even when I played the product at a shop. Now I use it as a controller to a Yamaha C7 (VI) ---- much happier. If I had a redo I might have selected the 255 (Yamaha), but I suppose it depends what else you're looking to get out of it----- strictly the DP itself or expanding to VI.

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 58
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 58
I cannot speak to the P255 but if you're gigging and looking for Rhodes (I and III, as well as Wurlitzer and CS-80 and Clavinet) and FX (drive, tremolo, chorus, reverb, wah, and 2 types of delay), take a look at the little $300 Roland Reface CP. It has mini keys and can output to a regular keyboard via MIDI. I own one and am delighted with its sounds (if not the little keys). Here's a direct comparison to a Rhodes:



Sustain pedal output with half-damper response, too.

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 792
P
pwl Offline
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 792
Originally Posted by kiedysktos.

My strongest doubt is the piano sound, since I'm converting from Roland to Yamaha, and I'm afraid that the piano sound will be too bright for me, especially when practicing jazz

These things are always subjective, of course - but as a former owner of a 255 I didn't find the piano sound particularly bright. (A little boring, maybe . . .) Compared to the Kawai ES8 which I now own, to my ear the Kawai is definitely brighter than the 255.

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,458
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,458
The P255 should do fine for your puposes, actually. Before worrying too much, you can always try the built-in EQ.

Of course trying before buying helps; and different Yamahas do sound differently. I've owned a P155 and now the CP4 - both worked for me, including jazz.


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 428
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by Jitin
If weight and bright sound is concerns look into Roland fp60 ,


Yup, I was thinking about this one but also didn't find it locally yet. Do you know if the piano sound is big upgrade from what I hear in FP-4? I suppose it has superNatural pianos and rhodes? I'm not sure if those are superior to Yamaha pure CF engine or not.

I'm a bit worried to stay in the world of Roland forever. When you don't have a grand and real Rhodes, you can start to perceive those sounds only from a single manufacturer perspective.... smile That's why I consider switching to Yamaha world and checking out a different perspective. Maybe that's just "Steinway vs Yamaha" sound issue, but for me it's hard to judge after a few hours in the store. For me some conclusions about the sound you draw after months or even years of playing a DP.

Originally Posted by pwl

These things are always subjective, of course - but as a former owner of a 255 I didn't find the piano sound particularly bright. (A little boring, maybe . . .) Compared to the Kawai ES8 which I now own, to my ear the Kawai is definitely brighter than the 255.


That's surprising, thanks!

Originally Posted by maurus
The P255 should do fine for your puposes, actually. Before worrying too much, you can always try the built-in EQ.

Of course trying before buying helps; and different Yamahas do sound differently. I've owned a P155 and now the CP4 - both worked for me, including jazz.


Makes me more calm, thanks smile


Roland FP-4
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 6
K
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
K
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 6
I would not buy P255. Unless you love he sound and action, it's years behind Kawai ES8 and Roland FP90, and latter two you will not not much more expensive than Yamaha if you will look good enough.

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,458
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,458
Well, kapelli, this "years behind" statement does not become more valid by repetition. For gigging musicians the criteria are different than for home users. Low weight, reliability, a good action and just a few sounds that do the job is what you need. In these respects some heavyweights for home use are out, quite simply.


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,315
E
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,315
Gigging = Yamaha in my opinion.

You just can't get a Roland to sound anything like the fat, ballsy, musical Yamaha sound. Technically, if one wishes to forensically disect the piano sounds then there are others that to my mind are certainly superior to Yamaha but if you just want it to sit in a mix without clashing with anything and yet remain articulate and easy for the audience to follow there's still nothing like a Yamaha.

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,458
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,458
I won't argue with that, Steve wink
Still, I've seen some musicians doing wonderful things with Nords and good amplification as well... wink


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 6
K
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
K
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by maurus
Well, kapelli, this "years behind" statement does not become more valid by repetition. For gigging musicians the criteria are different than for home users. Low weight, reliability, a good action and just a few sounds that do the job is what you need. In these respects some heavyweights for home use are out, quite simply.



Thanks for clarification maurus. I agree, that for gigging, action and piano sound does not have to be perfect,as many of those delicate pianos aspects of resonances and so will will dissappear among other instruments.

6kg less than FP90 is a lot as well.

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,392
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,392
Originally Posted by kiedysktos.
Hi piano lovers!

Currently, I have a Roland FP-4 and it's time to upgrade to a piano with a better keyboard. I see that I need this for technique development (articulation etc.). My criteria are:
- I gig a lot, and have 2 levels of stairs, so need to go lightweight. That's why I excluded Kawai ES8
- I need rhodes and piano sounds, one good for each is enough for practice. I play a lot with VSTs like Pianoteq, so for recording and performance will use my Mac as sound source
- I need speakers since sometimes I need to do some quick rehearsals.

I decided to go with P255, since it's 17.4 kg, has 30W speakers, very good rhodes sound and good piano sound. But... I didn't have opportunity to test it because no shop around has it... but I played a few Yamahas like P115 or YDP-143, so I imagine they sound a bit close.

My strongest doubt is the piano sound, since I'm converting from Roland to Yamaha, and I'm afraid that the piano sound will be too bright for me, especially when practicing jazz. Maybe that's something you get used to or even build your skills on to sound more mellow... I don't know.

Any comments or suggestions?


The Yamaha sound is a bit thin and as mentioned very bright.
TBH, portable pianos are not built for gigging and tend to be on the heavy side. A better option for you would be a stage piano. Many venues have a PA which you can jack into with a stage piano, or, you purchase a small PA of your own to take around.

Light weight stage pianos that have good Rhodes sounds and piano sounds include:

1) Korg Grandstage (or SV1) 20Kg
2) Kurzweil Forte SE (18.5 kg)
3) Roland RD800 (21.7 kg)
4) Kawai MP7 (21kg)
5) Nord Piano 3 (18,2 kg)


The only portable you might look at which gives you that Roland piano sound is:
Roland FP60 (19.0Kg) - Speakers: 8 x 12 cm (3-3/16 x 4-3/4 inches) x 2 (with speaker box); 13 W x 2. (26 watts).

This instrument has the advantage of a better action and newer sampling/modelling engines compared to the tired old Yamaha. Although the watt output of the Roland is slightly less, I'd wager that the speakers/amp are better in the Roland (worth testing).

I suspect you'll find the weightier pianos (21 kg or more) too heavy; however, the FP60 and the Kurzweil forte SE are probably competitive for your needs. The Nord would be perfect but it is expensive. The Kurzweil is a favoured brand among gigging musicians due to build quality and piano, organ, epiano sample quality. However, the Kurzweil action is probably slightly below the Roland (i.e., Kurzweil use Fatar action).

Last edited by Doug M.; 05/21/18 08:06 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,315
E
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,315
Originally Posted by maurus
I've seen some musicians doing wonderful things with Nords and good amplification as well... wink


Agreed. I still miss my Nord sometimes. It's worth bearing in mind that the Nord Piano 4 is almost £1000 more expensive than the P255. And as you said, the panel EQ on the Yammie is a doddle to use on the fly.

I also don't hold with the old mantra that Yamahas are very bright. To my ears most Yamaha concert grand samples are broadly neutral but, like their acoustic stablemates, they tend to have an unusual degree of clarity. It seems to me that some people mistake this quality for brightness. They get nothing like as bright as the sampled/modelled 'Supernatural' Rolands (such as FP30 and its brethren) that at higher velocities have a jarringly metallic character on some of the notes to my ears.

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,458
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,458
Yes, this matches my own impressions.

Edit: By the way, what became of the acoustic piano you once owned? Do you still have it?

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,315
E
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,315
Originally Posted by maurus
Yes, this matches my own impressions.

Edit: By the way, what became of the acoustic piano you once owned? Do you still have it?


Well remembered! I had a Yamaha grand but really it was in a space that was possibly too small. The ceiling was vaulted and fired the piano sound back at me in a rather oppressive way due to the angle of the ceiling. I later had a Kawai K3 which was acoustically very nice but I wasn't mad about the action. Currently using mainly a Dexibell P7 and the Kawai CS11 (which is amazingly nice) but the Kawai is under a sheet due to ongoing building works.

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 813
J
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 813
EssBrace: Do you miss having an acoustic compared to CS11 or even Vivop7 and korg g1 air?


Yamaha P155, Yamaha P515
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,315
E
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,315
Originally Posted by Jitin
EssBrace: Do you miss having an acoustic compared to CS11 or even Vivop7 and korg g1 air?


I miss the resonance and the ever-changing character of an acoustic. But the reality for me, with the particular instruments I had in the space I was using, just didn't work well enough for me.

I've just built a new house and there is space for a six foot grand in the middle of a reasonably large room. So when finances allow I'll have another go with the acoustic project!

When upright shopping a few years ago I played a well used Yamaha U3 and completely lost myself in it, in a way that has never happened before or since. It wasn't the greatest piano but there was something magical about it. Unbeknown to me another family had just tried it before my arrival and came back as I was finishing and they bought it right from under my fingers. My dream is to recapture that feeling in a new six foot grand.

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 58
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 58
If you consider Doug M.'s suggestion of a stage piano, take a look at Korg's recently announced D1. Around $800, and has the RH3 action also in the C1, SV-1 and Kronos X.

In this just-posted comparison review with the P125 the (Australian music store) reviewers preferred the action of the Korg to the Yamaha:


Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,514
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,514
Nice comparison video.

Incidentally, I stumbled upon another one from the same guys comparing the Yamaha P125, P115, and Kawai ES110.



Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
.nausicaa OP. (elementary version)
by WarDesu - 07/23/21 07:09 PM
Selling the sizzle if not the steak
by cfhosford - 07/23/21 06:25 PM
For the Experts
by Epee - 07/23/21 12:43 PM
Another question about piano positioning
by Cassia - 07/23/21 12:16 PM
1992 Yamaha C3 vs new CX2
by MusterMark - 07/23/21 10:19 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics208,177
Posts3,115,879
Members102,217
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5