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#2712806 02/09/18 02:06 AM
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Hi,

I recently bought a N3X.
It is a beatiful instruments except the TRS function.
Unlike N2, I can’t feel any difference when turning the TRS on or off.
I use CFX voice, and set TRS to 3.
Dealer says it is normal, but I find it quite odd.

Any N3X owner can confirm?

Thank you!

Last edited by Fan Yu; 02/09/18 03:56 AM.
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It’s adjustable, did you turn it up higher?

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Fan Yu Offline OP
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
It’s adjustable, did you turn it up higher?

Changing TRS from 1 to 3 does not give noticable difference, or any diifference to TRS off.

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There’s definitely something wrong with the system. You should feel a pronounced difference between levels 1 to 3. If the dealer says this is normal he is wrong. Contact Yamaha directly.

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Originally Posted by Pete14
There’s definitely something wrong with the system. You should feel a pronounced difference between levels 1 to 3. If the dealer says this is normal he is wrong. Contact Yamaha directly.


Hi, do you own or played on a N3X? Dealer says Yamaha changed TRS from N3 to N3X, to the degree that TRS is almost gone.

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I’ve played the N2. I’d recommend trying out another N3X to determine if what the dealer says is accurate. I don’t see the logic in making such a drastic change between the N3 and N3X. Perhaps they feel that the extra levels are overkill?

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Turn the volume all the down and play the piano with TRS on. You should still hear a muffled sound from the piano and that's the sound vibrating from those two (?) transducers.

I play wearing headphones so for me the TRS is by default turned off.


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Huh.

I was at a Yamaha dealer in December trying the AGs. One thing that I noticed was that in the N3X, and the N3X only, TRS seemed to get broken. If I played the N2 or N3 and turned the volume down, I could feel TRS buzz the keys very easily. And if I turned TRS off via control panel, the buzzing would stop. But on the N3X, I couldn't feel TRS at all no matter what. I mentioned this to the dealer, and just figured that one unit had a one-off fault.

But that's quite a coincidence, right?

Another option, maybe Yamaha has scaled TRS so that it is more subtle and volume-graded, or something similar?

After trying it TRS stuck me as a bit of an odd feature. It's off by default while using headphones but that is when you most need it. When using speakers, the subwoofer is usually around enough to vibrates the keys and pedal realistically, imo.

Oh and congrats on the N3X!


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I contact Yamaha online, this is the chat log.
TLDR, N3X need a hardware and software fix to update TRS unit.

Fan:Hi,
JohnH:Yes it works, but it's been changed from the previous model- so it is not the same as before. It's not broken.
Fan:I can't feel any difference when its on and off. What is the best way to test it?
Fan:Hello?
JohnH:It is so subtle at this point that is very hard to feel it.
JohnH:One moment. I see something on this.
JohnH:Actually we have had a service bulletin that makes it better. I can send a tech out
JohnH:Sorry about the confusion.
JohnH:After the fix was made there is a stronger response now. I think your unit did not get the update.
Fan:Is it a software update or a physical change?
JohnH:Both, so you will need a tech to do the change.
Fan:Is any cost to me?
JohnH:no, as long as you purchased this new from an authorized dealer.
Fan:Yes I did.
Thank you!
JohnH:have the repair person contact yamaha repairs
JohnH:the bulletin # is no 0031 2/2
JohnH:Increasing the Vibration of the TRS Function (Ver. 1.01)
JohnH:The servicer can call 800-854-1965 for further help. Thank you. sorry for the trouble also.

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I want to update on the serivice result.
After replacing the main board, now I can strongly feel TRS when using head phone.
Unlike N3, TRS is now depending on volume. So turning off volume also turns off TRS, with or without head phone.
Overall, TRS is only useful with head phone.

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Great to hear Fan Yu. I am glad to hear that Yamaha followed through good service.

Osho


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Ah so it is not a firmware update but a mainboard swap? That's good info, as it means this will likely only be. "fixed upon request."

Thanks for the update!


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That is a disaster "defect" for Yamaha as in-the-field motherboard replacement by a third party tech is expensive.

I'm rather surprised this happened as this is a just a "refreshed" N3. That said, the N3 was so old that Yamaha probably had to completely rework the new N3X motherboard so this is a lot more than a refresh under the hood.

After a few replacements, I would bet Yamaha found a way to rework the old revision N3X mainboards and redeploy them into the field.

Maybe CyberGene can get his hands on a "defective" N3X motherboard for his DIY project

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Originally Posted by Fan Yu
I want to update on the serivice result.
After replacing the main board, now I can strongly feel TRS when using head phone.
Unlike N3, TRS is now depending on volume. So turning off volume also turns off TRS, with or without head phone.
Overall, TRS is only useful with head phone.


Just to clarify: Are you saying that you can ONLY feel TRS when headphones are being used?

I also found the TRS non-existent (purchased N3X March 1st). I just contacted Yamaha support and they said my serial number showed it was manufactured in Dec. 2017 and the fix was made in June 2017.

They suggested I do a "headphone test" - and sure enough, I can feel the slight vibration when headphones are inserted AND the volume is > 0. Also, if I take the headphones off my head and place them a few feet away, there is a noticeable increase in volume coming from the phones when TRS is enabled.

However, once I plug out the headphones, the vibrations disappear, even with TRS at highest setting (3). I'm waiting on a call from a technician to clarify that this is correct behavior. The manual doesn't mention that is only works when headphones are being used.

Shouldn't the TRS work without headphones?

Last edited by QuinGold; 03/12/18 05:04 PM.

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Originally Posted by QuinGold

However, once I plug out the headphones, the vibrations disappear, even with TRS at highest setting (3). I'm waiting on a call from a technician to clarify that this is correct behavior. The manual doesn't mention that is only works when headphones are being used.


When I play-tested the N3X against the N2 last year, I didn't have headphones in, and I was also convinced TRS was completely broken on that N3X, I even informed the salesperson that I think they had a defective unit. Moving between the two, I couldn't feel TRS at all with the N3X. If it had become more subtle, then it's subtle beyond detection.

I guess that's why Yamaha had to fix it?


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The technology used in the N3X is the brand-new and patented SBD (subtle beyond detection). Yamaha states that it took them many years of research and development to develop and implement SBD into the TRS platform. Yamaha just keeps getting better! thumb

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I think Yamaha decided that TRS is only needed when using headphone.
Without headphone, speaker is usually load enough to vibrate the key. With headphone on, TRS is reuqired to provide vibration feedback.
TRS does create an artifical noise, so Yamaha want make it minimal.

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Thanks Fan Yu, I suppose that makes sense, but it should be noted in the manual.

To be honest, I can't say I liked the sensation much anyway! I can crank up the volume and shake the house just fine through the speakers...! (Now I'm really glad I don't live in the city anymore...!)


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FYI, Yamaha tech support emailed me a firmware update, which I installed via a flash drive in a few seconds. I think it did increase the sensation of the TRS feature as I can now feel something happening when TRS is at max (3) setting. According to Yamaha it's supposed to be subtle on the N3X compared to the N3. In any case, I just leave it on (at 2 default setting) and it's barely noticeable, which is fine.


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I kind of wish I hadn't run into this forum thread. Although my N3X was manufactured in May 2017, it seems like I do feel some vibrations when listening with headphones, but even with TRS set to "3" it's quite subtle. I've reached out to Yamaha about the service bulletin, but maybe I should just let this go? What say you, Fan Yu? Was the fix worthwhile for you?


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