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JoBert and BSharpI agree with you that there’s no “single” type of piano action. Every grand piano is different! And I could be biased as I very often played on a Yamaha grand piano when I was in college. I’ve also played occasionally the Bechstein at my teacher’s home and the Steinway D in our college’s concert hall, some Bösendorfers and some Kawais too.

Before testing the piano I was playing on an old Kawai grand with a new action installed. I bet it’s very different from the new Kawai action tho. And to be honest I’ve never liked Kawai’s acoustic pianos, neither the SK. They’re wonderful instruments but I still prefer a yamaha/Steinway. Just like digital pianos, it all comes to personal preferences !

Bonners have a demo model in both their stores according to their vids, but yes, not london.



No, it is true without violating any physics becuase the action and keybed are somewhat seperate things. Look online for spare action parts. Are there a multitude of whippens etc for every length of yamaha and kawai pianos? Do Renner and WNG make 10s of slightly different actions to fit different lengths of piano? Nope, not at all, that would not only make everything an impractical mess for repairs or refreshing your piano line up but also add a huge amount of unnecessary manufacturing costs.

Instead you have a single action that is designed to work when the key shoves the whippen up by X mm, all you then need is the keybed to produce Xmm movement at the capstan when the front is depressed by the desired key dip (10ish mm normally). This of course just means that the only thing that needs to be the same is the ratio of lengths either side of the pivot.

All you have on a longer piano, where the action has to be further in in order to hit the right strike point is longer keys operating the otherwise same action. And as I mentioned previously, as a design choice, for any given length of piano you can sacrifice some string speaking length in order to move the strike point further in and thus be able to use longer keys. You can actually see this is if you have quick browse of google images for the bosendorfer 155, there is a noticable length of non speaking string at the front of the bass strings that isn't present in the 200 where the bridge is wedged about as close to the front of the piano as it can be. On a 9ft most manufacturers are actually trying to keep the key length as short as possible to avoid excessive flex (hence also the double stacks of key buttons)

Obviously that doesn't mean that manufacturers don't put a considerable amount more effort into regulating the action in the piano they're selling you for £100,000 opposed to the one you're getting for £10,000 so it's quite possible to get a different feel from the same action even for the same key length. If you buy a SK kawai will send you one of their master technicians (to some countries anyway) a little while after your purchase to tweak it up to your liking.

I think that's what it boils down to: In the digital world, we've come to associate the term "action" with the whole mechanical construct, including the keys (or key sticks) and even the key top material. That makes sense, because for most digital actions, if you remove the keys, there's not much left (only a counter weight or, at worst, a spring, maybe some lever, and a few sensors).
It is my impression that in the acoustic world, this is not necessarily so and the keybed is indeed not always understood as part of the action. That's why Kawai claims that all their grand pianos are using the same Millennium III action, when there are obviously key sticks of different lengths in different piano models. In the digital world, that would be the Millennium III-S, Millennium III-M, Millennium III-L, Millennium III-XL and Millennium III-C ("C" for "Concert", obviously ).

Actually, yes. They are still rare in LA/Orange County. A dealer who has a close relationship with Kawai already received three. Two pre-sold, and one left which I grabbed. At my level of play, my opinion of the touch and action is probably not relevant. If JoBert and the others here like it, I know I will. I don't need fast keys, just the ability to control minor changes in dynamics. It will be different, so I will have to adapt to it. As I mentioned before, I really like the AG N1 and N2. And this will likely feel close to those. I passed on them because they are so dated and the NV10 is the cutting edge right now.

I was reading the manual, and sort of unrelated, but I am excited to try using bluetooth to play albums in iTunes on the NV10 sound system. Imagine, Keith Jarrett playing the Koln Concert in my study!

Congrats Tom!! I'm sure you'll enjoy the NV10 and I hope you update us with your impressions once you get it.

I take it you traded the CS11 in at the dealer?

Congratulations! Look forward to hearing your impressions and post pics and a recording if you can. Preferably from the external speakers. Enjoy!

Congrats, Tom. That's the dealer I visited on Saturday. The owner is a cool guy. Enjoy your new piano!

bSharp, the one in West LA? I think his prices are probably better than you know who in Orange County. I was impressed with his directness. No messing around. "I have one left, it is here, if you want it this is the best price you will find. I can deliver it this week, or how about tomorrow?"
But he is a kick! Speaks four or five languages. Yes, Gombessa, I traded in the CS11 at quite a loss. But who knew as soon as I bought it only six months or so after it was introduced, Kawai upgrades the CA97 (Which I had just traded in). Now the CS11 will be upgraded shortly. So it is not worth much now. Maybe I could have sold it on Craig's list. But the hassle is not worth it. Especially since you need to hire movers every time you move it. Even into the garage. Grandman, I need to do a recording for Willie Myette. (JazzEdge) So If I'm happy with it, I will post it here.

After having the NV-10 for a full week now, I've compiled a short list of wishes, most of which are just minor nits, but I thought I would note them here. Perhaps Kawai James can evaluate and pass on some comments to the development team if warranted.

1. I want to defeat the speaker cutout with headphone jack connected. I know why it's there, but I prefer to not repeatedly plug-in/unplug the headphones just to get the built-in speakers to work (plus, there's nothing on the NV10 that holds the speaker cable in place so it'll just drop 3ft to the floor when you unplug it). Ideally, I'd be able to set a few Favorites that would let me change between headphone and speaker, and between built-in sounds and VST, without messing with additional knobs or cables: one setting that turns off the speakers, turns off local control, and turns up line-in audio (VST with headphones), one that turns off speakers, turns on local control and turns down line-in audio (SK-EX with headphones), and the same settings with speakers turned on so I can play either the native sound or VST through speakers, at the tap of an on-screen button.

2. Touchscreen coating and feel. I'm not sure if the touchsceen is glass or plastic (feels kind of like plastic to me), but it also doesn't seem to have an oleophobic coating applied, so my finger always swipes inconsistently and stuttery across the surface.

3. Touchscreen responsiveness. A lof of swipes don't seem to take very well. Often times I get no response, or it doesn't swipe far enough and bounces back when I'm trying to change a setting.

4. Top edge of touchscreen doesn't have a bezel. This one is interesting. Where the fallboard meets the cheekblock, the glass of the touchscreen is entirely exposed. There's a foam pad there to cushion against the fallboard, but it's still a bare edge. Not an issue during normal use, but it seems like you'd have to pay close attention not to chip or crack it when removing or installing the fallboard during maintenance.

5. Another way to tell if the NV-10 is on. Yes, you can see the LED backlight through the screen even if the screen is off. But I've come home to find my young child has played the piano and closed the fallboard with it still on, and the display is now hidden so you can't tell the piano is on. I've been thinking about inserting a small USB LED or always-lit thumb drive into the USB slot just to have an ad hoc power LED indicator, but it wouldn't hurt to have a real LED one next to the power button or something.

6.The headphone hook seems to be made for small/cheap headphones. This (as well as the CA/CS series) are expensive instruments, and you would expect that people would use expensive (or at least generally larger, more padded) headphones with them. But the hook is tiny and has such little clearance that some padded headphones (like my Sennheiser HD598s) don't fit unless you really compress the foam on the headband. Also, the underside of the piano is unfinished so it'll damage the headband as you rub it against the bottom to get it onto the hook (so I put some electrical tape on the understide to smooth out the rough surface). I also took a dremel and sawed off a bit of the hook so the headphones slide on and off more easily, but I think this is something Kawai should simply address with a better-designed hook attachment with more clearance.

7. As described earlier, there seems to be some variation in the positioning of the key frame within the body. Mine is more forward than JoBert's so I can see the bare wood behind the black and white keys when I press them down, but interestingly enough, it's not as far forward as on some acoustic grands I play, which have an even wider gap between the end of the black keys and the fallboard. Not much of an ask here other than for tighter tolerance, or just an official word as to whether this is within spec.

Again, these are all mostly nits. I still jump out of bed early in the morning just so I have some extra time to play on the NV10. The action and response of the keys are just so much of a joy, and I just love it.

Yup, the guy that makes his own pianos I opted not to buy, because I knew you wanted it - haha. You got the best price I've heard of so far here in the area. Congrats! They are in limited supply in this area.

@ Gombessa,
fantastic job!!

KAWAI says:
"Because we believe that excellence is in the details. Even the smallest ones!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ysY_dbXlPo

Ha, that's one of the things I like about the NV10 - and one of the little nit picks I didn't like about the CA97. The red LED that was positioned rather unmotivated on the right hand side of the otherwise smooth wooden front. Maybe a position at the connector box, near the on/off switch as you suggest would be OK though. Although I don't really need it. I have mine set to auto-power off after 60min, so even if I forget it, it will soon switch off automatically. And since that's not something that can be changed with a firmware update, no one can take away my LED free piano from me anyway!

Well I think it's clear Kawai agrees with you

I haven't been using the auto-off because there are cases when we use the piano as a bluetooth speaker, and it's nice to be able to stream to it without it turning off with a timer (hmm, does the auto-off timer actually poll against active BT?), and also it would be great to start a stream without having to walk over to the piano every time and lift the lid just to check if it's on). Totally ancillary use case for sure, but I think a small unobtrusive LED on the control panel wouldn't be too distracting (it'd be invisible as you sit at the bench actually), and it's also easy to cover up if you really don't like it.

First world problems, eh?

Well, I cancelled the NV10 due to the price. Dealer may renegotiate. But the trade in is a real problem. Now, I can get the N2 with the trade for $1000 less than the NV. What to do? I am going down to play the N2 today.

Happy to report: Dealer came back with a very good compromise and will be delivering the piano this afternoon. Quite pleased with him. Looking forward to getting the NV10

LOL, Tom, that's quite a roller coaster!

I really hope now, that you will like the NV10 - fingers crossed!

Can someone share the final price?

This is an interesting comment for me. My nearest Kawai dealer (3+ hours away) just got an NV10 in but hasn't yet assembled it. I'm planning to take the trip to play it in the near future, but he isn't a Yamaha dealer and there isn't a Yamaha dealer that's very close to him.

This may just be my own defect, but I find it very hard to assess two different pianos unless I can go back and forth and try a lot of different music (and settings on DPs) on each repeatedly, one after the other. I tend to fall in love with the one I'm playing at the time, unless there's some glaring problem like the damper volume problem on the N2, I find that I adapt to whatever high end piano I'm playing pretty quickly. (I'm a late intermediate / early advanced level classical pianist), Of course if the action or sound is artificial, as it is on most non-hybrid DPs, I can tell.

So in addition to trying it personally, I'm really looking forward to more impartial AG/Novus comparisons just to get other people's perspective. Compared to the Avantgrands, there's very little on the web for impartial NV10 reviews and also classical music performances (even given that you're not actually hearing the DP speaker system). Hopefully that will change soon.

The piano was delivered around 1:00. Nail biter as they maneuvered it though the hallway and into my "study" that used to be my son's bedroom. The design without two legs in the back made for a precarious balancing act. But the boys handled it in a professional manner. Happy that it was on the first floor. So it is in place and I just now took a brake playing on it since 2:00. I need to read the manual to see how to save my settings to startup. First impressions, the action is very good and requires better technique compared to the CS11. Everything is more sensitive. Touch, pedals. The sound is incredible. Even though headphones. T

Congratulations Tom!!

It looks like everyone is busy playing NV10s last day or so! - not much chatter today .

Osho