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As I wrote above, I really started to appreciate the pianist mode while playing with headphones yesterday and after a few minutes of comparing, I remembered that on my CA97, I did have the resonances and decay cranked up quite a bit (actually to 8, just like you wrote). So I did the same on my NV10. With that setting, the difference is not as striking anymore than it was before, but there was still a noticeable difference in favor of pianist mode. But, as said before, I would not have upgraded the CA97 to a CA98 only for the pianist mode. Getting the new action and the much nicer looking cabinet were the main points for me, the pianist mode is a really nice bonus. Since you already have the action in your acoustic on weekends, and the CS11 already has a very nice cabinet, personally I don't think I would upgrade the CS11 at this time. Maybe I would cave once the NV20 or NV30 or whatever other successor (or one after that) comes out.

Pianist mode's resonance are far more advanced (calculated for all 88-keys, and progressively) than any previous generation Kawai DP.

However, it's not just the resonances that are improved, I find the multi-channel sampling has a clearer tone, a smoother dynamic response. I cannot quite put my finger on exactly why Pianist mode sounds (and plays!) better...it just does. It's one thing to listen to the new sound engine, but I believe you really have to play it to fully appreciate the improvements.

I expect MacMacMac will dismiss my comments as marketing spiel, but that's honestly how I feel.

Kind regards,
James
x

I cranked up all the resonances on Sound mode in SK-EX to 8, and you're right, the differences are diminished at that point. However, there is still (imho) a significant improvement in the fidelity of Pianist mode. Kawai James describes it best, it is still more resonant, it's more clear, and more airy in both bass and treble than sound mode (and the touchscreen UI makes it SO easy A/B test this)! Compared to Pianist mode, Sound mode is a bit more muddy and "hollow" with the resonances turned up high. I honestly can't say that I would be able to tell the difference without a side-by-side comparison, but when compared against each other, it is quite evident to my ears!



Thank you Frankie! I'm not an EE and I have to admit being baffled as to how an electrical issue can so impact a clear digital signal, but it gives me a great sense of adventure to see continuing evidence that the world is not as simple as we would like to intuit Perhaps it's a matter of failing to isolate the electrical signal from one source to another. But since the buzzing modulates as I do things on the laptop (like change volume or scroll the screen), it would seem the USB connection is causing a change to manifest in the analog audio out to the piano. Hopefully the iDefender will do the trick, but I may hit you up for tips on ferrites and other USB isolation tricks if it doesn't!



I expect anyone with a CA-78/98 to be able to test this, but I definitely find this to be true. Pianist mode is fuller, MUCH more clear, and with more pleasant, ringing resonance than the Concert EX on the MP11, and also compared to the SK-EX Sound Mode. I'm still going to try to get Garritan CFX to work without ground loop buzzing, but the more I play Pianist mode, the more I get lost in the beautiful tone, and that matters a lot!



*Heavy sigh* I ain't saying anything here. To each their own. But I hope people try Pianist mode SK-EX Rendering before casting aspersions.

Gombessa, I forgot to congratulate too, thought it was only JoBert with a NV10, but apparently there are more people to envy now Congrats on your new shiny NV10! Please, let me know how you find the difference between CFX and Pianist mode. I'm genuinely intrigued by that comparison because I am myself on a crossroad currently deciding between a CA78 to utilize the Pianist Mode, or upgrading to (an eventual) VPC2 or CA48 with GFC to use as a controller to CFX. I am a well known supporter of CFX so this will be a tough choice and I haven't yet tested pianist mode which I will certainly do when I have chance to do so, but it would be very interesting to hear the opinion of one who's able to compare them both side by side as owner of both. Looking forward to this!

Gombessa- Envy on the NV10. Still none to try in my locale. The action is obviously superb. Now that you've been playing it a few days, can you comment further on the speakers and sound quality. You mentioned the lack of 'wall of sound' vs the CA-98. As all have noted, the NV10 vs N2 speaker and amp specs are quite different. Are you completely satisfied with the fullness and range of sound you're hearing on the NV10? Can you crank it up to the point where it has the powerful sound of a mid-sized grand? (Obviously very subjective but helpful.)

(I'm hoping to hear a classical recording on YouTube in the near future, though it will likely not be recorded from the internal speaker system.)

That's nice to hear. Do you know any time when this pianist mode is going to enter the AnyTimeX silent pianos?

On e-onkyo music on 2017/10/04 (news 779) there was a long report and interview about the recording and sampling process of the special selected SHIGERU KAWAI EX grand piano, which now trades under "PIANIST mode: SK-EX Multi Channel 88 Key Rendering", which is first used in CA78/98 and of course the NOVUS NV10 (but you all know that).

To my knowledge, this very same piano was also used at the International Chopin Piano Competition 2015 in Warsaw (next to and in competition to STEINWAY & SONS D, YAMAHA CFX and FAZIOLI F278).

Here is the link:
http://www.e-onkyo.com/news/779/

I use the following translation tool:
http://free-website-translation.com/

One could translate this wonderful extensive article, in which pianist A. Entani-shi ("Kawai-Onkyo CS-X1 Collaboration Prototype @ Musikmesse Frankfurt 2016" and "Kawai-Onkyo NOVUS NV10 Collaboration @ Musikmesse Frankfurt 2017") and KAWAI MPA (Master Piano Artisan) T. Murakami-shi be interviewed in detail, into clean English, so that it can be perceived by a much larger readership than "only" the Japanese, since the article delivers very interesting insights into the creation process of the “SK-EX Multi Channel Rendering”.

In any case, I'm not sure which grand piano exactly was used by YAMAHA for their CFX-sampling, what past and history that grand piano was, and how the sampling was done.
For me, the CFX used in the N3X or NU1X is a "no name" YAMAHA grand piano. Business as usual.

After all, the SK-EX grand piano chosen for the 2015 Chopin Competition is a very special selected one, as it met its competitors, see above, in the competition.
To my knowledge, MPA T. Murakami-shi was also the "piano technician" who supervised this exceptional SK-EX during the competition.

Would be interesting to hear the recording of something in sk-ex pianist mode vs the same thing in the sk-ex sound mode but fed by the midi output that was produced from the painist mode (would have to be done this way around since pianist mode does not accept such inputs). Preferably something a little more wide ranging than the typical demo style fast notes mf-f only which don't really expose the limitations of digital pianos very well.

I watched the entire competition start to end and I believe you are wrong since there was no participant playing a Kawai. As a matter of fact, there was only one participant playing the Fazioli, while the rest chose either Yamaha or Steinway, with the Yamaha beating the Steinway. Whether Kawai presented their SK-EX but nobody chose it as their instrument or Kawai didn't participate in that competition at all, I don't know.

P.S. I feel dumb and old... Actually there was a Kawai and 11 pianists played it. I need to check my memory since it was me who created a thread in the piano forum about this numbers:
Yamaha > Steinway > Kawai > Fazioli

Thanks Evgeny! I think a lot of these tests will take some time. It's really easy to get swamped with new changes, settings, etc. and get "lost in the forest." My very preliminary take is that CFX Full is more "full-bodied" and rich and with more natural reverb that the built-in sounds, and Pianist mode is more "clean," When I started CFX, everything sounded immediately familiar and comfortable (as it's been my go-to tone on the MP11 for 6+ months). When I switch to Pianist mode, it's different but I never get the sense that I'm moving to an inferior sound engine.

I'll probably move back and forth between Pianist mode and CFX over the next few weeks to decide which I want to stick with. And to be honest, the decision may fall to convenience--how easily can I make it so that my family can get the piano turned on with speakers activated, without digging through too many settings or pulling plugs? I'm already looking for options that will allow the speakers to play even with headphones plugged in to the NV-10.




I'm probably not the best one to comment on the speakers, as for me, this will be a 95% headphone piano (else I would probably have looked to get an acoustic!). I don't think I was the one who made the comment about the CA-98, as I've only played a couple of minutes on one. And on the NV-10, most of the speaker time thus far has been playing kids tunes streamed to bluetooth from the phone

From the few hours I've tried, I'd say that the sound from the NV-10 speakers is clean and "as expected." I've always felt that grands were quieter for the pianist than uprights assuming the room is large enough, and the NV-10 is the same. It gets loud enough, but never crazy overpowering (e.g. if you open the top lid and remove the front cover from an upright).

I think it's SO hard to compare speakers between models unless they're side by side, so I just can't reasonably make a call against the N2/N3X on this point, sorry!

My bad. It was JoBert who made the comparisons to the CA-97/98.

Thank you JoBert and Gombessa for your thoughts and test about pianist mode vs. sound mode with additional resonance and congrats to your new Novus NV10.

I will try the NV10 when its available for testing in cologne.

And I couldn’t resist either . Here is the pivot length of my acoustic Kawai GX2 Millenium III action: 26.2 cm which is about 10 1/3 inches.



Daniel

BTW Americans don’t break inches into thirds It should be 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 or 1/16-s Don’t ask me why, I am a metric European

Think of triadic inches.

You do get thousandths (thou) though, and occasionally tenths...

I made a quick and dirty recording for comparing pianist mode with sound mode:



Of course this also applies to the CA98 and CA78, not only the NV10.

As you can hear, there's definitely a difference, but the SK-EX in sound mode definitely doesn't have to hide in shame. Although be aware that many of the nuances have been lost with the various compressions/decompressions on the way from my piano to your speakers/headphones, via YouTube. If listened to directly from the piano, the difference is actually more pronounced, in favor of the pianist mode.

Settings for Pianist Mode: Rendering Style "Classic" with default settings, except Resonances=7 and Damper Noise=3

Settings for Sound Mode: "SK-EX Concert Grand" sound with default settings, except Damper Resonances=8, String Resonances=8, Undamped String Resonances=8, Cabinet Resonances=4, Damper Noise=3

Hi JoBert,

thank you so much for the recordings. VERY helpful and some nice Schumann pieces from „Kinderszenen“ and „Album für die Jugend“ which I played also.

The sound mode seems a little moore „boomy“ to me, but this maybe could be adjusted with the internal equalizer. The last piece „Erster Verlust“ sound VERY nice also in sound mode.

Thanks again
Daniel

I agree (also from my own experiments). Sound mode with all the resonance settings turned up is a tad "boomier"than Pianist mode.

Very nice comparison JoBert, thank you! Good choice of music too And if you allow, a slight correction to the Pathetique Sonata: at the end of the first phrase you should play pure B and not Bb (for a G major chord).

Hi JoBert,

after listening to your video again a few times I think the pianist mode sounds a little bit more „refined“.

What are the thoughts of the other fellow forum members, concerning this very goog comparison video by JoBert? (thanks again!)

Daniel