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David-G cross-posted this topic into the Piano forum.
And Frank replied with this:
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Coincidentally we used to pay hundreds of dollars a month for Google "Ad Words".
Not seeing any monetary return for my investment I cut way back.

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I set all my devices back to using DuckDuckGo yesterday and it’s been great so far! Fully recommend it. Plus it’s not tracking you!

The only Google service I still use a lot is Gmail. Wondering what would be a good replacement although it’s hard/impossible to just change your main email after so many years frown


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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
David-G cross-posted this topic into the Piano forum.
And Frank replied with this:
Quote
Coincidentally we used to pay hundreds of dollars a month for Google "Ad Words".
Not seeing any monetary return for my investment I cut way back.


This is quite interesting. I've been in the habit of using Google Advanced Search and limiting the website to pianoworld.com if I'm trying to find something because the results returned by Piano World's own search engine are kind of random.

As a test I tried searching for Scott Joplin limiting the search results to pianoworld.com. I get one hit on the forums from 2008 and a couple links to recitals. If I limit the site results to forum.pianoworld.com I get one hit, the same one from 2008.

I always thought that if one paid Google money it meant that one's site could be bumped up on the search results, but they are still there if someone does a more specific search. I have a friend who sells rather esoteric engineering equipment and I know he works with Google to fine tune his search results for potential customers and he's very happy with what they can do. But I don't think he would be happy to find that if he stopped paying his company would completely disappear from Google, that's what this behavior implies. Not cool.


Last edited by David Farley; 12/31/17 12:06 PM. Reason: left something important out
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Don't Be Evil

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Originally Posted by newer player
Don't Be Evil


Very Orwellian (Animal Farm wise). wink


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All search engines are equal, but some search engines are more equal than others.

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I was thinking of how the phrase "evolved" along the story. wink Google's moto "evolved" the same way.

Last edited by EVC2017; 01/01/18 04:54 AM.

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Neither Google nor Bing return any results from this site for the search "rd-700nx headphones". I think there are multiple threads discussing that question, so this is not right. It could be that they are excluding forum software that doesn't have good mobile support. It's almost as bad for the MusicPlayer forums.


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I thought Google were threatening to downgrade poor mobile support but only for searches from mobile devices.

Tbh I'm a little surprised at the number of sites still running UBB given the open source (and thus free) alternatives available that seem to be far more modern and comprehensive. (And probably don't allow passwords to be stored plain text either)

Inertia of having to transfer everything over I guess though I'm aware of converters for things like phpbb.

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Bad press for Google in this thread, but they have a dominating 70% of search engine market share Bing has 8%.

Similarly, Chrome is crushing competing browsers with 50% market share and increasing fast see the graph in in this link particular

I agree with some of the scary notions voiced in the above, are we being strong armed?


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I guess Google is the new PW obsession for 2018. wink There are alternatives and I haven't used Google search or their browser for quite some time.

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Google's still good for shopping . . . .


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Originally Posted by jarobi
I guess Google is the new PW obsession for 2018. wink There are alternatives and I haven't used Google search or their browser for quite some time.

It’s not so much the problem that one can’t find it any more if you want to (other search engines), but that new users and traffic will subside dramatically (for example the market share of google search in germany in 90%), and nearly no one will read your posts anymore.

Therefore also the ad revenue for this site will shrink dramatically and it might get closed because of that.



Daniel


Last edited by danielp11; 01/03/18 01:58 AM.

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Somewhat surprisingly, given the way this conversation has been going, if you enter "best piano forum" on Google gets this forum at the top of the list. Other similar requests give a front page with ABRSM, Piano Street and PW among others.

Last edited by toddy; 01/03/18 10:33 AM.

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Frank Baxter has already pointed out that he wasn't getting benefit from advertising on google, so I think this dire prediction is overblown.
Originally Posted by danielp11
It’s not so much the problem that one can’t find it any more if you want to (other search engines), but that new users and traffic will subside dramatically (for example the market share of google search in germany in 90%), and nearly no one will read your posts anymore. Therefore also the ad revenue for this site will shrink dramatically and it might get closed because of that.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Frank Baxter has already pointed out that he wasn't getting benefit from advertising on google, so I think this dire prediction is overblown.
Originally Posted by danielp11
It’s not so much the problem that one can’t find it any more if you want to (other search engines), but that new users and traffic will subside dramatically (for example the market share of google search in germany in 90%), and nearly no one will read your posts anymore. Therefore also the ad revenue for this site will shrink dramatically and it might get closed because of that.


You are mixing two things here: Frank stopped paying for ads on Google because he felt it didn’t help increasing traffic to PW. Daniel was talking about decreased ad revenue here on PW (money that others pay to Frank) which may well happen if Google stops sending people here. Not seeing much ROI from Google ads (and thus stopping to pay for them) is a whole different ballgame than Google stopping to include PW in search results. The latter can be very damaging.


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Originally Posted by JoBert
The latter can be very damaging.

Yeah, to mention an example, a Google employee in India gets a small handout under the table from your competitor and you get illegal competition. Will you be able to sue Google India?


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1. I'm implying that Frank's decision to stop google ads led google to stop putting the site into search results.
2. That would reduce traffic to this site, making it less frequently read by people like you and me, and less attractive to advertisers who pay Frank.

I don't know whether item #1 is true.

If it's not, then I wonder what prompted google to stop making this site appear in its search results?
Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Frank Baxter has already pointed out that he wasn't getting benefit from advertising on google, so I think this dire prediction is overblown.
Originally Posted by danielp11
It’s not so much the problem that one can’t find it any more if you want to (other search engines), but that new users and traffic will subside dramatically (for example the market share of google search in germany in 90%), and nearly no one will read your posts anymore. Therefore also the ad revenue for this site will shrink dramatically and it might get closed because of that.


You are mixing two things here: Frank stopped paying for ads on Google because he felt it didn’t help increasing traffic to PW. Daniel was talking about decreased ad revenue here on PW (money that others pay to Frank) which may well happen if Google stops sending people here. Not seeing much ROI from Google ads (and thus stopping to pay for them) is a whole different ballgame than Google stopping to include PW in search results. The latter can be very damaging.

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Many people mentioned that Google "punishes" websites that are not mobile optimized. Let's face it, and I had another thread about that, Pianoworld is absolutely mobile unfriendly. Maybe that's the simple explanation, not some twisted retribution scheme. I am not implying Google are good, but I doubt it they will act in such a primitive way smile


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As someone else pointed out (possibly in the other thread), such actions would be illegal under EU law and the frequency of pw results seems to have dropped here too from when I was looking for info on DPs a year and a half (or so) ago.

One thing that is noticeable is that where pw forums do show up, there is no longer any summary text like there is for most results. This might also be hitting results if the bot is unable to pick up in thread info along with the lack of mobile friendliness. This has been noticed in the other thread actually, seems the bot is having issues indexing the site correctly.

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