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#2658721 07/03/17 10:43 PM
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I've discovered that TuneLab can mimic OnlyPure. If I succeeded in posting my image...The red dots are OnlyPure and the black dots are the readings TuneLab took with 10:5 in the bass and 6:1 oct+12 in the treble.

[img]http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...elab-can-mimic-onlypure.html#Post2658720[/img]


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Originally Posted by That Guy
I've discovered that TuneLab can mimic OnlyPure. If I succeeded in posting my image...The red dots are OnlyPure and the black dots are the readings TuneLab took with 10:5 in the bass and 6:1 oct+12 in the treble.

[img]http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...elab-can-mimic-onlypure.html#Post2658720[/img]


How many pianos are represented?

Have you tried this on multiple pianos with varied inharmonicity?

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This is only one piano. An older Baldwin 9' grand that I service regularly. I use OnlyPure on it but a while back was getting a bit frustrated with the auto advance so I thought I could just do a custom offset and use TuneLab instead. I've since gone back to OnlyPure, but I had the readings so decided to see if TuneLab could mimic the tuning curve. At the same place where the Baldwin is there's an Acrosonic, Yamaha studio and Yamaha grand. Do you think the Acrosonic would be an interesting contrast to the Baldwin?


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Also, this is the exchange I had with Robert about the settings:

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Hi Robert,

I had a question about the Tuning Curve page. In the Treble Interval there is a setting for 3:1 12th and 6:1 oct+12ths. I tried the 6:1 oct+12ths and found that it followed along with Tunic OnlyPure. I was intrigued. Can you tell me about those settings? Are they designed to be a pure 12ths tuning?


Yes, they are. At least at the top octave they are designed to be perfect 12ths. But depending on what the bass interval is, the perfect 12ths will gradually morph into something else in the midrange. I don't know exactly what OnlyPure is doing, so I can't say how closely our tuning would match theirs.


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Originally Posted by That Guy
This is only one piano. An older Baldwin 9' grand that I service regularly. I use OnlyPure on it but a while back was getting a bit frustrated with the auto advance so I thought I could just do a custom offset and use TuneLab instead. I've since gone back to OnlyPure, but I had the readings so decided to see if TuneLab could mimic the tuning curve. At the same place where the Baldwin is there's an Acrosonic, Yamaha studio and Yamaha grand. Do you think the Acrosonic would be an interesting contrast to the Baldwin?


"Interesting." Yes. Keep us updated.

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Well, in addition to Kent's question, my response from looking at the graph would be yes and no...

Yes, the overall shape is similar, but no - on the level of tuning needed to say it matches... The subtle differences between tunings is really quite important to how the piano 'feels' when being played.

Ron Koval

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When I tried these settings on a Steinway M (actually 8:4 & 6:1) I was astounded at how close it came to the way I tune aurally. It was the first time it did what I WANTED it to do. However...

In the bass, following strictly to the program, it started stretching things a bit too much for me in about the last octave, and WAY INTO OUTER SPACE for about the last 6 notes or so. My ear said: "no way" and I adjusted accordingly.

In the treble, all was great, a bit more stretch than I would normally inject, but I decided to go with it and test it out musically. I was pleasantly surprised. I liked it quite a bit. Very high treble rang nicely sympathetically with notes below.

(I admit I did not take this tactic in the bass though).

Pwg


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Yes, me too Peter, I quite often make corrections in the bass and sometimes in the treble too. Like you said the last 6 notes or so. I'm glad you found it pleasing!


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Ron - Yes, I choose the work "mimic" hoping to indicate that it wasn't a perfect match but certainly, interesting. Since I have OnlyPure there's really no reason for me to use TuneLab to just copy what OnlyPure does, so I'll admit, I was trying to give TuneLab some credibility in the pure 12ths arena since Kent hadn't mentioned it in his article. wink Perhaps there's a pure 12ths temperament that could be created for TuneLab just like Kent has done for Verituner?


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Okay, I tuned a Baldwin Acrosonic today that I tune regularly. Here's the result:

[img]http://www.thattuningguy.com/PHOTOS.html[/img]

As before, the red represents the offsets which are OnlyPure. Where you don't see any red, the match was perfect. Seems to me it matches up pretty nicely, (except for the bass section which is always kinda weird) although I don't know what the expectation is. For instance, how closely does RCT follow OnlyPure? How close of a match can be expected?


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Originally Posted by That Guy
I've discovered that TuneLab can mimic OnlyPure. If I succeeded in posting my image...The red dots are OnlyPure and the black dots are the readings TuneLab took with 10:5 in the bass and 6:1 oct+12 in the treble.

[img]http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...elab-can-mimic-onlypure.html#Post2658720[/img]



I use Tunelab and have been tuning with the Koval Equal Well 1.3 with great success but have found the bass to be far too sharp (not stretched enough) for my taste using the default stretch settings on Tunelab. So I have been ignoring the ETD and tuning the bass by ear going much lower than what the software suggested. Interestingly, I changed the base to 10:5 and the treble to 6:1 Oct + 12 (as your experiment of mimicking TunicOnly pure) and found it to match my taste nearly perfectly in the bass. By contrast, the treble called for less stretch than what I was doing.


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I'm glad you're finding those settings pleasing to your ear! I'm hearing the same report from other tuners. Like you, I've quite often disagreed with the bass stretch on the ETD and just tune them by ear. Especially the octaves within the break.


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Thus, the benefit of BEING ABLE to do it by ear and know the difference.

Pwg


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Scott,

In Tunelab, if I lay down a temperament, then go over it aurally and make a few adjustments (changing the offsets) do these changes get reflected in the octaves above and below, or are they isolated to the specific notes i change?

Do you know?

Pwg


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Originally Posted by P W Grey
Scott,

In Tunelab, if I lay down a temperament, then go over it aurally and make a few adjustments (changing the offsets) do these changes get reflected in the octaves above and below, or are they isolated to the specific notes i change?

Do you know?

Pwg


Peter, may I ask how you go about changing the offsets? What you actually do on Tunelab to change and get accurate results/offsets for the aural adjustments you have made?

Last edited by Mark Davis; 07/11/17 04:40 PM. Reason: added 2nd question

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Peter - The offset is isolated to only that note. An easy way to see your offset is to go to the Tuning Curve page. The dots (or little tiny lines) that are red are the offset notes.

Mark - There are 2 ways to do an offset on a note.

1. Swipe the phase display left or right and a screen will pop up that asks if that's what you really want to do. Tap yes and the phase display will be yellow. Now you can adjust it by swiping left or right, and you'll see the offset number in the upper right corner. Once you've adjusted it to what you want, tap on the Offset number and a screen will pop up with 2 choices: Set the offset to zero (in other words, cancel what you've just done) or Transfer offset to A4 or whatever note you're adjusting. If you chose to transfer your offset to that note then you'll see a yellow number in the upper right that says: Cust -2.05c or 2.05c (I'm just making up numbers and the c will be the cent sign. I don't have that on my Chromebook.) The one without the minus sign is sharp. That is a permanent offset and the only way to delete it is to go to the Custom Offsets page in settings, scroll down to that note and zero it out or if you want to get rid of all your offsets just tap ZERO ALL.

2. The second way to record an offset is to use the locking method. Tap the padlock (it will turn into a red stop sign) and play the note. If it locks on, just tap the stop sign and from there on out it's just like the other method.

Also - Once you've made your offset adjustments you can save the tuning and those offsets will be there for the next tuning.

Maybe this goes without saying, but the next time you use the file don't assume your offsets will be accurate again. I've had pianos that had quite a few offsets and the next time I tuned it they didn't sound right. So, as I like to say, keep your wits about you. The offsets may sound right the next time but if nothing else, they can serve to be a reminder that those notes need to be paid attention to.


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Thank you Scott


Mark
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