2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
62 members (AlphaTerminus, BlakeOR, Boboulus, BlaisGuitars, c++, 36251, accordeur, 12 invisible), 610 guests, and 472 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 16 1 2 3 4 15 16
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
R
Richrf Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
Originally Posted by keystring
Yes, it's the one I posted earlier. wink You have kept my time stamp on it, which was there not only to show the playing, but because of some technique I'm working on right now. But if you go to the start of the video, that interview is there.
Arrau had a wonderful teacher who guided him carefully in many aspects of both piano playing and music. That teacher died when Arrau was still too young, so that he had to transition from "child prodigy" to mature artist on his own, a thing that was bewildering but he did successfully. I look up to Arrau and I'm glad you mentioned his name at the start of this new thread.


I feel Arrau it's presenting a very concrete and practical idea, i.e. tension or stress is a obstacle to creative artistry. In this, I feel it is a nice video to study whether or not one chooses to play with tension.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 438
F
f3r Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 438
"totally relaxed" is simply wrong. I think I understand what you mean but one cannot be totally relaxed and play the piano at the same time. When using the word relax, relaxation etc. you should try to be very clear about the message you want to convey. The more abstract the talking gets, the harder is for me to keep listening/reading or to retain the information I receive.

Now... a student doesn't need every information he/she can get about technique or whatever, unless he/she is planning to become a teacher but I would want a clear explanation of what I have to do and how to achieve that if I need to be corrected. It's not useful if a teacher just simply says to relax or to "imagine what you want to play and the body will do the rest". Sure, it can work with some students who can get it naturally but for the rest... let's not count on it.

And about the quality of the gestures, the wave-like gestures can become harmful and I think that they don't even look that natural or even good...

I guess all is good as long as you don't injure yourself and get what you want to achieve.

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
R
Richrf Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
Totally relaxed it is and the idea that someone can be harmed by relaxation is an idea that I do not share.

It is energetic, but the energetic feeling comes only after relaxation is achieved. How long it takes is indeterminate. Patience is required. One can be harmed in other ways such as by fear of relaxation or any other type of fear.

Last edited by Richrf; 04/27/17 07:07 PM.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,373
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,373
Originally Posted by f3r
"totally relaxed" is simply wrong. I think I understand what you mean but one cannot be totally relaxed and play the piano at the same time. When using the word relax, relaxation etc. you should try to be very clear about the message you want to convey. The more abstract the talking gets, the harder is for me to keep listening/reading or to retain the information I receive.

Now... a student doesn't need every information he/she can get about technique or whatever, unless he/she is planning to become a teacher but I would want a clear explanation of what I have to do and how to achieve that if I need to be corrected. It's not useful if a teacher just simply says to relax or to "imagine what you want to play and the body will do the rest". Sure, it can work with some students who can get it naturally but for the rest... let's not count on it.

And about the quality of the gestures, the wave-like gestures can become harmful and I think that they don't even look that natural or even good...

I guess all is good as long as you don't injure yourself and get what you want to achieve.

thumb

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 438
F
f3r Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 438
Rich, I've done and currently am doing exercises that involve full body awareness and relaxation of the entire arm, up to the shoulder. I can partially share your point of view and I see the value in what you write, but that's only because I have some knowledge of how the body works while playing the piano and this knowledge I use as a filter.

I would talk about unnecessary or excessive tension (which is unnecessary because it's excessive) and dynamic relaxation instead of relaxation alone.
The first can indeed be caused by the mind affecting the body but one can learn to disconnect the two with proper training.
The second involves some scientific but really simple talk about the antagonist muscles, how they work in coordination and how to train this coordination.

Actually, the whole talk can become scientific and overwhelming; some stuff may be totally useless to the majority of us, that's why I previously said that a student doesn't need to know everything.

I'm concerned about what other beginners take from your posts and even mine. There's a reason why my contribution in the entire forum is very limited. I may have already wrote too much.

I'll shut up now.

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,666
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,666
It's all so odd, this emphasis on "relaxation" (all of it emanating from one source - there's one very long thread already by a relative newcomer, and now here's another, and everyone is seemingly dancing to his tune....) almost as if it's the be-all and end-all of acquiring piano competence. As if it's the first, last and only step that's of any importance in the grand scheme of the art of piano playing.

Such is the power of repetitive multiple internet forum posts on one single topic, ad nauseam, seemingly also ad infinitum.

At no stage did the OP even mention the possibility that the main - the biggest - reason why someone develops tension is because he's struggling with the technique, either because he's trying too hard to run before he can walk, or because (especially as he doesn't have a teacher) he is copying someone on YT and not understanding that the instructor has had decades of piano playing and, before that, good instruction behind her and everything she is demonstrating is technically easy for her. (It's really easy to demonstrate smooth, effortless scales in thirds when you have complete finger independence, and control of every minute movement of each and every finger.....).

All the talk (monologue) instead is about, frankly, wishy-washy, airy-fairy concepts along om mani padme hum lines which really have no place in piano instruction. I can imagine piano teachers doing more - much more - than scratch their heads over the number of posts here about such concepts of "artistic relaxation".

Let's be clear - if you try something that's technically too difficult, there will be tension. You haven't learnt to recruit the right muscles and/or only the necessary muscles required to make that movement, or that action. So, antagonists as well as agonists get deployed in your effort to make that movement, other muscles not directly required get roped in to try to counteract the antagonists, and you get......tension. Of course.

Watch an expert v a near-beginner at any sport or any skilled activity, and you get the same thing. Be it rock-climbing, tennis, swimming, parkour.......or playing a musical instrument. Any instrument.

My teachers never used the word "relax" in any language (- I was taught in two different ones). Whenever I showed signs of developing it (because I was struggling to do a movement, or play something), they showed me how to practice it without forcing, so that it became easier, and I wasn't tensing the wrong muscles unduly. There was still tension, because it was still difficult for me, but that eased fairly quickly, so it was never in danger of becoming ingrained. That was because I was never required to dance before I could walk, and skills were being acquired little by little.

I remember, for instance, when I was asked to play scales in thirds for the first time. The fingers that weren't playing stuck right out. Same with octave scales. But as my fingers became more comfortable with the movements with daily practice, the non-playing fingers began to relax automatically, such that by the next lesson, they no longer stuck out like antlers. That was only possible because when I started learning them, I'd already had good finger independence, and could voice a ten-fingered chord in any way I wanted, i.e. it wasn't such a big leap in technical terms to start learning scales in thirds. But if I was still having trouble with finger independence at that time, no amount of "Relax! Relax!" exhortations from my teacher, or any kind of self-imposed zen-like imagery of willows billowing in the gentle breeze, brushed by still water, caressed by fluffy caterpillars, could have made me relax - simply because I'd still be struggling with the finger movements.

So, let's get real, and get back into the real world. For the sake of every other learner in ABF.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
R
Richrf Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
The basic principles of relaxation are studied quite a bit in Asian countries, especially China, where the concepts of relaxation (Song) and energy (Qi) are imbued in their culture including areas of health, sports, and the arts (Chinese and Japanese brush painting artists are reknowned for works their gestures). I just read such a study earlier today.

While Western mechanical approaches dominate Western pedalogic thinking, there are still deep cultural roots, especially in parts of Europe and South America, that embrace the concepts and benefits of relaxation and energy. Arrau presents this viewpoint in the video.

In any case, opposing relaxation is the use of fear as a means to obtain a desired action from some person. I believe it was politicians who turned this tactic into an art form.

Last edited by Richrf; 04/27/17 07:43 PM.
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 253
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 253
Originally Posted by f3r

Now... a student doesn't need every information he/she can get about technique or whatever, unless he/she is planning to become a teacher but I would want a clear explanation of what I have to do and how to achieve that if I need to be corrected. It's not useful if a teacher just simply says to relax or to "imagine what you want to play and the body will do the rest". Sure, it can work with some students who can get it naturally but for the rest... let's not count on it.


That is exactly what I experienced learning and playing guitar. I think it is more prevalent there than on piano, there are so many guitar teachers, methods, books, everything out there than piano, and unfortunately, far less qualified to actually teach or write methods.

Relax, and play slow were the two biggest banes of my existence.

Relax: It is impossible to play completely relaxed. As others have mentioned, it is a lack of tension beyond what is required to play.

Play Slow: I am happy to see that in the piano world, playing slow is usually accompanied with focus and playing right. For me, it was a lot of "play slow, it will get faster." I did (play slow). And it didn't (get faster).

Once I got the whole picture (Playing slow, with attention, to do so with the least amount of tension necessary, to build muscle memory) it came together.

I think to simply relate it to the high level concept of "Relax, just do it, the music will just flow through it" is a big disservice to the majority of people trying to learn. And it skips over a lot of points.

As far as gestures... the term is an oversimplification, but I get it. It is a lot easier to say 'this gesture' than 'move your arm, elbow, wrist, and fingers like this'

Even so, watching her, the 'gestures' are very purposeful and disciplined, through much practice and training. The big waves disappear as she plays faster, and I do find seeing and learning with the exaggeration is helpful for me. They also get smaller for me when I go up to tempo, but they are there, and it is a graceful fluidity on the ones I work on.

As far as a 'beautiful gesture' sounds better than 'plonking on a string' that is a bunch of BS. If you took that same 'gesture' and hit the key with the same velocity and release, as pretty as the gesture is, it will still sound just as ugly.

In a way, that brings to mind the old Johnny Bench Krylon paint commercial. If you watch it, you can see he uses two completely different movements when using his baseball to show which paint is better. And now I feel really old.

That being said, I work, and practice, making those types of movements because not only does it end up being more fluid for me, it ingrains in to muscle memory a lot faster. But I see this as learning the technique, precision, fluidity over this movement sounds better than this other movement.

Relaxation (Well, lack of excess tension) is a part of the picture. But it is only one part.

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,086
W
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,086
Originally Posted by f3r
Rich, I've done and currently am doing exercises that involve full body awareness and relaxation of the entire arm, up to the shoulder.


I know you were taking a break (hopefully not permanent) from piano. Are you doing general physical therapy or is this a discipline Alexander / Taubman / etc?


Whizbang
amateur ragtime pianist
https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeschala
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
R
Richrf Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
One doesn't tell someone else to relax. One relaxes his/her own spirit/mind/body using imagery (it is continuous and unitary in nature). Images created by music is one possible source of such inspiration.

Last edited by Richrf; 04/27/17 09:34 PM.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
O
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
@Bennevis
We may not often agree on all the requirements of individual learning, but I think your post was very spot on here!

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,647
C
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,647
Originally Posted by bennevis

My teachers never used the word "relax" in any language
My teacher used to bash my hand into the keyboard while shouting the word. It worked.

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 438
F
f3r Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 438
Originally Posted by Whizbang
Originally Posted by f3r
Rich, I've done and currently am doing exercises that involve full body awareness and relaxation of the entire arm, up to the shoulder.


I know you were taking a break (hopefully not permanent) from piano. Are you doing general physical therapy or is this a discipline Alexander / Taubman / etc?

A mix of Alexander, Lister-Sink and some other stuff. Taubman will be thrown in later.

Perhaps this is not ideal but Alexander teachers here are expensive, even more then "normal" piano teachers. No sign of Taubman or Lister-Sink trained teachers here but I bet they're expensive too.

The mix is necessary because I cannot get one-on-one lessons. I have to consider every bit of information and either retain it; discard it if I think it's BS or keep it for later use. Plenty of resources on the internet. All of this on my own. You can all see how this can turn out badly.

There's theory, aural training, rhythm exercises... Really not much stuff, but... I find it hard to keep the focus and to properly memorise whatever I try to study. If you ask me to tell you what I know, I can't do it; but if you give me some time to think about it, I can write everything I have in my mind. I do well only on written tests.

I think I've wasted around 2 months total or more due to my constantly fluctuating mood. I'm also getting weaker because the last time I had a proper workout was about 2 years ago.

My hope is to resume lessons in September and if not, I have to work on my own. I don't want this to happen.

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,268
J
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,268
Originally Posted by f3r
"totally relaxed" is simply wrong. I think I understand what you mean but one cannot be totally relaxed and play the piano at the same time.


Indeed, one cannot be totally relaxed and do anything at all at the same time. But what is a useful idea is to start from that state, and carefully activate only the muscles needed to play the piano. It's a starting point, not a complete technique.



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
R
Richrf Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
It is not about activating muscles. It is about allowing energy to flow. An analogy would be picking up a water hose and moving it around compared to running water through the hose and allowing the water to move a hose.

This characteric difference is pretty much unknown in the West but very much part of Asian cultures including India and China. However, from time to time I notice Western piano artists and teachers describing this effect which is why I posted this video of Claudio Arrau explaining the effect and what it means to him.

The reason I am studying the Piano Career Academy online course is because Illinca is constantly describing this effect though not explicitly as they might in Asian studies. Her instruction it's very unique, even more so since it is available in English! Other YouzTube channels such as The Art of Piano Technique instruct with a similar viewpoint.

The only way to arrive at this feeling is by being completely relaxed, use imagination, and be patient and wait. It comes but it is not predictable as to when. I just completed reading a study, performed in China which directly addresses this whole topic and completely confirmed my point if view concerning the nature and benefits of studying with complete relaxation.

Last edited by Richrf; 04/28/17 04:45 PM.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,736
R
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,736
Originally Posted by bennevis
It's all so odd, this emphasis on "relaxation" (all of it emanating from one source - there's one very long thread already by a relative newcomer, and now here's another, and everyone is seemingly dancing to his tune....) almost as if it's the be-all and end-all of acquiring piano competence. As if it's the first, last and only step that's of any importance in the grand scheme of the art of piano playing.

Such is the power of repetitive multiple internet forum posts on one single topic, ad nauseam, seemingly also ad infinitum.


The other thread is dying from lack of interest, except the interest shown by the OP. So, a new thread became necessary, it seems.

Originally Posted by bennevis
At no stage did the OP even mention the possibility that the main - the biggest - reason why someone develops tension is because he's struggling with the technique, either because he's trying too hard to run before he can walk, or because (especially as he doesn't have a teacher) he is copying someone on YT and not understanding that the instructor has had decades of piano playing and, before that, good instruction behind her and everything she is demonstrating is technically easy for her. (It's really easy to demonstrate smooth, effortless scales in thirds when you have complete finger independence, and control of every minute movement of each and every finger.....).

All the talk (monologue) instead is about, frankly, wishy-washy, airy-fairy concepts along om mani padme hum lines which really have no place in piano instruction. I can imagine piano teachers doing more - much more - than scratch their heads over the number of posts here about such concepts of "artistic relaxation".

Let's be clear - if you try something that's technically too difficult, there will be tension. You haven't learnt to recruit the right muscles and/or only the necessary muscles required to make that movement, or that action. So, antagonists as well as agonists get deployed in your effort to make that movement, other muscles not directly required get roped in to try to counteract the antagonists, and you get......tension. Of course.

Watch an expert v a near-beginner at any sport or any skilled activity, and you get the same thing. Be it rock-climbing, tennis, swimming, parkour.......or playing a musical instrument. Any instrument.

My teachers never used the word "relax" in any language (- I was taught in two different ones). Whenever I showed signs of developing it (because I was struggling to do a movement, or play something), they showed me how to practice it without forcing, so that it became easier, and I wasn't tensing the wrong muscles unduly. There was still tension, because it was still difficult for me, but that eased fairly quickly, so it was never in danger of becoming ingrained. That was because I was never required to dance before I could walk, and skills were being acquired little by little.

I remember, for instance, when I was asked to play scales in thirds for the first time. The fingers that weren't playing stuck right out. Same with octave scales. But as my fingers became more comfortable with the movements with daily practice, the non-playing fingers began to relax automatically, such that by the next lesson, they no longer stuck out like antlers. That was only possible because when I started learning them, I'd already had good finger independence, and could voice a ten-fingered chord in any way I wanted, i.e. it wasn't such a big leap in technical terms to start learning scales in thirds. But if I was still having trouble with finger independence at that time, no amount of "Relax! Relax!" exhortations from my teacher, or any kind of self-imposed zen-like imagery of willows billowing in the gentle breeze, brushed by still water, caressed by fluffy caterpillars, could have made me relax - simply because I'd still be struggling with the finger movements.

So, let's get real, and get back into the real world. For the sake of every other learner in ABF.


Very well stated! Thanks for posting this reply. smile


Ralph

Kawai VPC1
Garritan CFX
Pianist since April, 2015
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,736
R
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,736
Originally Posted by Richrf
It is not about activating muscles. It is about allowing energy to flow.


Wrong. Playing piano is about activating muscles, and better piano playing is about better activation of those muscles. All of your wishes notwithstanding, your arm is not a hose, your arm has bones that only move as a result of muscle contractions(tension), the limited range of their motions and the limited available directions of their motions are dictated by the construction of the joints between those bones, and by the specific location of all the attachment points of those pesky contracting (tensioning) muscles.

Originally Posted by Richrf
An analogy would be picking up a water hose and moving it around compared to running water through the hose and allowing the water to move a hose.


The TeleTubbies, Homer Simpson, and Wallace and Grommit may have arms that more resemble hoses, but, they are not in the real world where the rest of us reside. I'd even make a substantial wager that the movement of your own arms is propelled by and limited by the above described interactions between your bones, the joints that connect them, and the contracting (tensioning) muscles that move them.

The analogy of water flowing through a hose does not apply to real movements in your real body, but only to your imaginary body.

Originally Posted by Richrf
The reason I am studying the Piano Career Academy online course is because Illinca is constantly describing this effect though not explicitly as they might in Asian studies. Her instruction it's very unique, even more so since it is available in English! Other YouzTube channels such as The Art of Piano Technique instruct with a similar viewpoint.


Check out all of the videos you have posted of Illinca. In every one of them that I have watched it is apparent that she also has bones, connected by joints, and moved by muscle contractions(tension). I have yet to see any hose. It also appears that she has great expertise in invoking and controlling those muscle contractions, or tensioning.

Originally Posted by Richrf
The only way to arrive at this feeling is by being completely relaxed, use imagination, and be patient and wait.


My guess, supported by her own statements, is that extensive, well targeted practice got Illinca to where she is today. She is a marvelous pianist. I, for one, am sure glad that she didn't "be patient and wait" as you teach.



Ralph

Kawai VPC1
Garritan CFX
Pianist since April, 2015
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 460
G
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 460
I'm not going to write about piano technique because I'm no expert, but I do know something about East Asian philosophies and want to clarify some concepts.

Simply put, the importance of the perspectives emphasizing relaxation is that they BALANCE many demanding and strict cultural expectations surrounding social obligations and access to learning. These cultures respect authoritative teaching and earnest application of correct practice by the learner: hard work and attention to accuracy (through imitation, repetitive drill) coupled with pretty intense self-assessment. However, these cultures wisely recognize the need for other perspectives which can serve as social or artistic "safety valves", and ways to develop and nuture exceptional outlier creativity. It really is all about proportion and balance.

Lots of people, outside the culture, only see half the picture and over-emphasize a "new-agey" aspect of East Asian philosophy--which has driven me crazy in my line of work for the last 40 years or so :-)

I really respect Ilinca Vartic and have posted my appreciations on other threads in the forum. As others have said, she studied under different conditions to acquire her advanced technique and won her place in good music schools in a very competitive system. (Read some recent history of Moldova to understand what type of society and educational system Ilinca grew up in.) She excelled in piano and put her all into her practice. She also dealt with serious health and stress issues as a result which she shares openly. Of course she understands and values balance in terms of relaxation and creative flow. She is very creative--and also very sensible.

Everyone should think about what approaches work best for them--and realize that that may vary at different times in life. The ABF is a welcoming place and everyone is invited to share their experiences.

BTW, I found lessons in the Alexander Technique very helpful. I couldn't afford to have too many lessons, but tried to learn as much as I could and supplement the lessons with readings and practice. I think about what I learned in those lessons every day. Made a big difference for me.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Hailun HG 178, Charles Walter 1500, Kawai CA63
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
R
Richrf Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
Balance is achieved by removing obstructions. That is the natural way of water. It finds its own level. No effort required, only self-imposed obstructions need to be removed. This is the basis of many ancient Asian health practices and wisdom.

Less is more.
Slower is faster.
Softer is stronger.
No effort is the greatest effort.


It will not make sense until it is self-discovered bit by bit. My saying it is pretty much meaningless. Example: Slow, magnified practice of a piano piece.


Last edited by Richrf; 04/29/17 04:43 PM.
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
R
Richrf Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,072
This is a nice little piece from a drawing book I am reading written by a former professor at the NY School of Visual Arts:

"Drawing should be an effortless activity, a matter of aspiration over perspiration. But any casual approach often creates difficulties for those who prefer to do battle, to lock horns and meet challenges head-on with fists clenched and jaws set in determination. Forget it! We have only to get out of our own way to derive the ultimate drawing reward - satisfaction. It is a peaceful, benign experience ... If we allow it to be just that!"

Last edited by Richrf; 04/29/17 06:06 PM.
Page 2 of 16 1 2 3 4 15 16

Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Lower Pianoteq power consumption
by meghdad - 06/23/21 11:18 AM
Opinion on Sherlock and Manning 13657
by JKyser - 06/23/21 09:39 AM
What a great book!
by Ubu - 06/23/21 09:03 AM
Piano out of tune after tuning
by Gashdal - 06/23/21 08:34 AM
Does Pianoteq benefit from more cores
by Christopher90 - 06/23/21 04:53 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,667
Posts3,106,600
Members101,889
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5