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Doug M. Offline OP
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Hi Folks,

Wondering if anybody has compared the Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650 on their MP7 and had any thoughts as to which headphones suit the MP7 the best?
Also, is the headphone connection on the MP11 the same as the MP7...If so, any MP11 owners got any preferences between these two.

Will be using the Kawai piano samples, not VST.

Kind regards,

Doug.


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they are both 300 ohms Doug so in that regard no difference in load for the headphone amp of the MP7

don't see settings for headphones in the manual like there are for the CA series for low and high resistance headphones so assuming 300ohms will be possible for the mp7 to drive but volume will be lower than say my hd558 or the hd598


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I'm using the HD598 with the MP7, and they sound great because of the huge sound stage. I have not compared the HD600 or HD650 because I don't own them, but I have avoided those headphones because of the high resistance. I'm actually not sure if the MP7's headphone amp is able to power those headphones sufficiently.


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I have had both but have neither at the moment, they are in many was quite similar, provided the MP7 can drive them okay I think there shouldn't be much in it. The 650 does extend further in the bass region, so you;ll get a bit more of the elevated growl and punch, but many will say the 600 is a bit more neutral. In any case, they are both very good, and since the MP7 has a multi band equaliser I would think being a stage piano, you can always tweak a bit.

I do still own the 598, and found it to be plenty good enough for piano, and very much like Falsch said for that reason, the out of the box sound stage. I like the natural soundstage on it more than either of its siblings in some ways than the more expensive brothers, the 600/650 with a lot of out of box pianos, even though it is not quite as refined in the details where the other two may be preferred (by the so called audiophile purists).

Today, while it took a little getting used to, I actually use the philips X2 ( in the same price bracket as the 600/650 ) a lot more than the 598, easy enough to drive, a bit more lively and present as it were in ways, and a super huge sound stage. I often find myself having to adjust and bring the panning in a bit because of it. Often I have to take them off to make sure if left the speaker on, since it appears the sound comes from everywhere in the room, when in fact I find they are not on at all, it is that convincing. Works great too with binaural recordings/sounds ... but, to each their own, best try for yourself. As many will say, it could be a case of .. One man's meat is another man's poison.

Last edited by Alexander Borro; 01/10/17 04:56 PM.

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Doug M. Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies! I'll email Kawai Europe and find out how powerful the MP7 headphone amp.


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I got the 650s for Christmas on the B&H price drop. They're just outstanding !

They breath a new life into my CP5 and very noticeably smooth out the CFX sample on my CP4.

Fwiw- No need for a headphone amp with either Yamaha. I would expect the Kawais to follow suit.

Never have spent a better $314 on gear. thumb


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I was about to say I think 600s or 650s are overkill given that the headphone stages in these pianos will be pretty mediocre. My instinct is that 598s are just about right. Easy drive. The Philips are a good call too. But then I read Dave's post above!....

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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
I got the 650s for Christmas on the B&H price drop. They're just outstanding !

They breath a new life into my CP5 and very noticeably smooth out the CFX sample on my CP4.

Fwiw- No need for a headphone amp with either Yamaha. I would expect the Kawais to follow suit.

Never have spent a better $314 on gear. thumb



I couldn't agree more! I love them - especially on my CP4. Also, absolutely agree with no need for a headphone amp with CP4, ES7, and RD800. However, it is important to know that these are open back headphones. If you are in noisy a environment you might be a bit disappointing. HD650 shine in the most quiet environment.

... and yes, incredible value at $314.

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I don't really understand this topic. From the headline I thought it was a pure HD600 vs HD650 question for that specific piano, but from answers and OP, it seems that it's more about any of the two vs anything else.

My take on it: The both headphones are very similar, which you probably already know, and they have the same impedance as well. If you are chosing between the two, I don't really think you have to consider them specifially for your piano too much. The same sound character in general between HD600 vs HD650 holds true.

HD600 is more flat with a very natural sound, compared to the slightly warmer HD650. I bought mine (HD650) for the soloely purpose of use with my digital piano, and I wanted the slightly warmer sound since I don't really see a need for the more "natural" sound from HD600.


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Topics d/evolve ^^

the original question was just wether or not the DP could handle either headphone resistance wise - since theyre both the same and it is likely the DP can handle it it becomes a matter of taste, hence the qualitative statements regarding the 600vs 650 ^^

I'd put preference on as flat repsonce as possible so as not to emphasize certain notes and confuse playing but that's just me


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Doug M. Offline OP
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Just got this message from Kawai Europe:

Quote
Thank you for contacting Kawai.
This combination won’t be suitable without any additional headphone amp.
Without headphone amp the impedance should be less than 100 Ohm.
I hope this information will be helpful.


Does anybody know of a good Headphone amp?


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Doug M. Offline OP
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Or does anybody have further suggestions/advice concerning this post on the issue?

Amp for headphone with 250 Ohms and up


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yes and cheap too

https://www.jdslabs.com/products/1/cmoybb-v2-03-headphone-amplifier/

can also use an adaptor with it for power instead of a battery but it lasts a good long while on a cell ^^





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Better answer from Kawai than the one I got from Roland (they could not say..)


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Personally I'd try whichever pair of Senns you end up going with on whatever Kawai you have - and see if you get enough gain. Again I can't see the amps in the Kawai being that different from what's in the Yamaha stage pianos.

I'm at about 75% of max volume, with the 650s, on either Yamaha and that's plenty loud for me.

Regarding amps- if I did have to go that route I wouldn't muck up the pristine high quality sound of the Senn 650s with some cheap mixer made overseas or consumer grade hi fi amp. Buy once buy right.

Go with the Rupert Neve or Little Labs Monotour. Pro sound quality.


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Doug M. Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
Personally I'd try whichever pair of Senns you end up going with on whatever Kawai you have - and see if you get enough gain. Again I can't see the amps in the Kawai being that different from what's in the Yamaha stage pianos.

I'm at about 75% of max volume, with the 650s, on either Yamaha and that's plenty loud for me.

Regarding amps- if I did have to go that route I wouldn't muck up the pristine high quality sound of the Senn 650s with some cheap mixer made overseas or consumer grade hi fi amp. Buy once buy right.

Go with the Rupert Neve or Little Labs Monotour. Pro sound quality.


Thanks Dave, that confirms my idea on this issue - to have a quality amp to match the headphones...


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I spent quite some time last week researching for a good headphone amp for HD-650 which I am/was planning to buy and two that came out as pretty good are:
Violectric HPA V90 - €450
Beyerdynamic A20 - €398

or Violectric's budget brand analog:
Lake People G103-S - €229

Lake People is the budget brand of the Violectric.

You won't go wrong with any of those in combination with HD-650. I'm still deciding whether I need to spend the cash though since there are some other family priorities right now...

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/11/17 12:23 PM.

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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
Personally I'd try whichever pair of Senns you end up going with on whatever Kawai you have - and see if you get enough gain. Again I can't see the amps in the Kawai being that different from what's in the Yamaha stage pianos.


I agree, you've got to try it with your piano, plain and simple.

IMO, the Yamaha amps (or at least something related to headphone output) can definitely be different from Kawai's.

On my CP50, I have to turn up the the master volume (or correspondingly adjust EQ/gain) to about 80% in order to get a medium volume out of my HD598. The same piano drives HD280Pros to the same volume at about 40-50% max (so it's not specifically an impedance issue).

On my MP11, the same set of HD598 will output at a medium volume at about 40% on the master slider (if piano volume is maxed out), though I typically set both master and piano volumes to about 60% each. Plus, the MP11 can be set to output much louder and won't start to clip (whereas the CP50 does with these headphones at 80%+ volume).

I really don't understand the electronics behind these specific interactions, but across 4-5DPs and 3-4 headphones, there are definitely combinations that work better than others.


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Have you tried the HD700? Is has a lower impedance compared to HD600 / HD650 and has a much wider sound stage IMHO


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I have some experience with Sennheiser HD650 connected to my MP7. There is not any need to amplify, and the quality of sound is superb. I can hear and discern many simultaneous sounds and nuances. For example, if I play and hold some MP (mezzo piano) bass accord and then play and hold b1 note, in 3-4 seconds I hear typical string decay overtones of the b1 note. The overtones are pulsating as if this is from a real string. No other headphones, which I have, allow me to hear this. Then, vibration of a damper pedal provides additional nuances, which are clearly discernible with HD650.

I recommend to increase MP7 damper resonance setting and add some reverb to non-pedaled notes. (Not sure this is related to the headphones quality).


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