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#2589342 11/22/16 08:34 PM
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Regards,

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Loved it! Made me smile.
Character is very Moszkowskian and good natured.

Last edited by CCM Stephen; 11/22/16 08:52 PM.
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The repeated blocked chords on the harpsichord are a bit jarring for me. I'd love to hear this on the piano.

Nevertheless, Sounds wonderful!

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Another composition that can only be played in that tempo by a computer. I don't like recordings and compositions of that kind.

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Originally Posted by Pianist685
Another composition that can only be played in that tempo by a computer. I don't like recordings and compositions of that kind.


It's difficult, but there are certainly pianists who can play that fast (listen to Ignaz Freidman's recording of Chopin etude in thirds). Harpsichords are generally more resistant than well-regulated pianos, so I'm not sure if the tempo is realistic on the harpsichord, but the piece would be just as effective at 7/8 tempo.

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Originally Posted by Pianist685
Another composition that can only be played in that tempo by a computer.

You are either joking or have never encountered a decent pianist.


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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by Pianist685
Another composition that can only be played in that tempo by a computer.

You are either joking or have never encountered a decent pianist.


I'm a pretty good pianist ( creds on websites) ... and am one of a very few who have studied harpsichord. I needed a "secondary" at the Quebec Conservatoire and chose harpsichord since I didn't want to fiddle around with stringed instruments. I got lucky since Kenneth Gilbert one of the world's preeminent harpsichordists had taken up a position on the faculty. He was rigorous and strictly adhered to the "style" which is unique since the harpsichord operates with "plectra" rather than hammers. The strings are essentially plucked rather than struck. So the notes cannot be sustained and there is no provision for the tonal variations afforded by the piano. To create an illusion of dynamics, we almost imperceptably distort the rhythm ... slowing slightly to indicate a crescendo or the shaping of a phrase. Many people unfamiliar with this detail, accuse the harpsichordist of "distortion". Not so.

Alas ... your Waltz for harpsichord ... even if it could be played with some miracle of dexterity and some as yet unknown modification of the plectra ... would be jarring to the ear. The harpsichord takes some getting used to since the sound isn't lush and resonant. I find two hours practice is my max after which a migraine looms.

I recently acquired a high end Kawaii digital which allows me two quite good harpsichord choices. I admit to being surprised when I discovered this feature. So am working on the 15 Bach Inventions to show that this electronic device can indeed bridge a gap of centuries. One of the "speeds" which a lot of baroque music demands are the trills and mordents. They must be crystal clear and pure.

It's a beautiful instrument, sadly misunderstood or ignored by too many people. I see a new vision possible in the digital version ... which can make this rather inaccessible instrument possible to many more people. laugh

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Originally Posted by TheHappyPianoMuse
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by Pianist685
Another composition that can only be played in that tempo by a computer.

You are either joking or have never encountered a decent pianist.


I'm a pretty good pianist ( creds on websites) ... and am one of a very few who have studied harpsichord. I needed a "secondary" at the Quebec Conservatoire and chose harpsichord since I didn't want to fiddle around with stringed instruments. I got lucky since Kenneth Gilbert one of the world's preeminent harpsichordists had taken up a position on the faculty. He was rigorous and strictly adhered to the "style" which is unique since the harpsichord operates with "plectra" rather than hammers. The strings are essentially plucked rather than struck. So the notes cannot be sustained and there is no provision for the tonal variations afforded by the piano. To create an illusion of dynamics, we almost imperceptably distort the rhythm ... slowing slightly to indicate a crescendo or the shaping of a phrase. Many people unfamiliar with this detail, accuse the harpsichordist of "distortion". Not so.

Alas ... your Waltz for harpsichord ... even if it could be played with some miracle of dexterity and some as yet unknown modification of the plectra ... would be jarring to the ear. The harpsichord takes some getting used to since the sound isn't lush and resonant. I find two hours practice is my max after which a migraine looms.

I recently acquired a high end Kawaii digital which allows me two quite good harpsichord choices. I admit to being surprised when I discovered this feature. So am working on the 15 Bach Inventions to show that this electronic device can indeed bridge a gap of centuries. One of the "speeds" which a lot of baroque music demands are the trills and mordents. They must be crystal clear and pure.

It's a beautiful instrument, sadly misunderstood or ignored by too many people. I see a new vision possible in the digital version ... which can make this rather inaccessible instrument possible to many more people. laugh

I said pianist, not harpsichordist. grin


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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
[/quote]
I said pianist, not harpsichordist. grin


Aye you did. But yer wigglin' a bit here smile You did mention "harpsichord" in your title and it apparently is a waltz FOR harpsichord.

However you were replying to a comment by Pianist 685 in which he maintained that this couldn't be played by a pianist. Well it can't ... not at that speed. It was written with a computer program and all those computers are happy to play it. I challenge any pianist to play this. Not possible.

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Originally Posted by TheHappyPianoMuse
Originally Posted by Polyphonist

I said pianist, not harpsichordist. grin


Aye you did. But yer wigglin' a bit here smile You did mention "harpsichord" in your title and it apparently is a waltz FOR harpsichord.

However you were replying to a comment by Pianist 685 in which he maintained that this couldn't be played by a pianist. Well it can't ... not at that speed. It was written with a computer program and all those computers are happy to play it. I challenge any pianist to play this. Not possible.

Codswallop.


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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by TheHappyPianoMuse
Originally Posted by Polyphonist

I said pianist, not harpsichordist. grin


Aye you did. But yer wigglin' a bit here smile You did mention "harpsichord" in your title and it apparently is a waltz FOR harpsichord.

However you were replying to a comment by Pianist 685 in which he maintained that this couldn't be played by a pianist. Well it can't ... not at that speed. It was written with a computer program and all those computers are happy to play it. I challenge any pianist to play this. Not possible.

Codswallop.


Touché ... I can see your trébuchet is well armed and loaded ... shocked

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In order to end this "I say yes - you say no" thing: I have listened to the piece a second time and could now easily determine what the two hands were actually doing if this was played by a human being. Well, the waltz seems less difficult to me now than at first glance. Still, I am convinced that a real harpsichord will not do this job because of mechanical constraints. I am not a harpsichordist but was allowed to play on such an instrument once at the C.P.E. Bach museum in Hamburg and with that experience I can only endorse TheHappyPianoMuse in what she is saying.

The waltz would have been easier to assess if the sheet music had been attached to the recording. My recommendation to all composers: never only post a recording but do attach the sheet music (by the way, nobody else will ever play your pieces without that).

But now I think the piece could be played by a good pianist on a piano at perhaps 70-80% of the tempo (and the waltz would just be as fine as CCM Stephen is saying).

Still, I do not like computer-generated recordings. In former times it was common that a composer played his own pieces. E.g. the best interpreter of Chopin, at the time, was Chopin himself. I would like to see composers play their own works.

Last edited by Pianist685; 11/30/16 05:09 AM.
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Originally Posted by Pianist685
But now I think the piece could be played by a good pianist on a piano at perhaps 70-80% of the tempo

No, a good pianist on a piano could play this significantly faster than the tempo of the recording.


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Loved the piece. Thanks.

I studied harpsichord in University, won a scholarship to do my masters in Harpsichord performance (I declined, already had a job lined up). To my ears, the harpsichord and its performer are quite capable of the repetition rates demonstrated. The neat thing I like about the harpsichord is that, to my ears, it always sounds as if it is being played faster than it really is.

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Show me the hands. Unless someone can actually play this piece to speed ... then it's sheer fantasy. PLAY it please!

This is computer generated and as such, is an item of interest. Speed isn't the goal of a serious composer. Beauty is. Far too many people are "composing" with computer programs. To really have control and understanding of the composition, one must be a fluent with the instrument it is written for. I wouldn't dare write for a solo violinist, since I do not play the violin. The great classical composers for piano were all consummate pianists. I want to see the hands, please.

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I've always been a believer in playing strongly contrapuntal works on harpsichord as slowly as possible. Largely because the counterpoint can get blurred at high speed, even with a very separated legato. It can't be too slow or the decay between notes gets very noticeable. The advantage of the harpsichord is that the plucked strings allow for incredible definition of the counterpoint, which can't be easily obtained on the piano (especially if you play fast).

Of course, if you are an accompanist, you need to play at the speed that allows the other players to succeed (not run out of breath or bow).


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Well, I suggest that you listen to a few new HIP recordings of harpsichord playing. The plectra provide a percussive attack much shorter than that of the piano. As a result, clarity is maintained at extraordinarily high speeds. Just google harpsichord music.

As a harpsichordist in university, I learned the techniques to maintain the clarity of the contrapuntal line. People think the harpsichord produces only one dynamic level. That is not the case. As in the piano, the speed of the key depression has an effect on the bending moment of the plectrum. The faster you depress the key, the less flexible it appears to the string, much like a piano hammer, which appears to be harder the faster the key is depressed. Water has the same effect. Walk into it slowly and it squishes. Hit it at 600kph and it is as hard as granite.

This means that one has some control over voicing of lines and chords - small, to be sure, but audible to the audience.

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I am quite familiar with the delicate "work-arounds" we employ with the harpsichord. I suggest you listen to a few recordings of my teacher, Kenneth Gilbert. I had him hovering over me like a vulture for the two years I studied with him.

And until I see this particular piece actually played on the harpsichord ( or piano ... I'll allow a little leeway here) I do not think it is practical for the harpsichord. We can argue over the technicalities of the harpsichord and the quick action of those plectra .... but the issue is this particular piece of music, ostensibly written for the harpsichord. Which is being offered on a computer program without a score. I could get into the side issue of a "waltz" being played at a tempo only a cyborg could handle. But for now, human hands and score please!

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Originally Posted by TheHappyPianoMuse
I could get into the side issue of a "waltz" being played at a tempo only a cyborg could handle.

Again, you are completely wrong on this point.

Originally Posted by TheHappyPianoMuse
I do not think it is practical for the harpsichord.

Obviously it is not.


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Show me the hands. That's the only way to prove that it's practical.

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