2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
48 members (antune, brdwyguy, anotherscott, Carey, astrotoy, Bruce In Philly, 11 invisible), 963 guests, and 530 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,169
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,169
Originally Posted by dolce sfogato
I'll be the devil in this thread: I don't like the piece at all. I have performed the Goldberg/Händel/Paganini/Telemann-variations, a lot of work/fun, I like late Beethoven, I performed 109-111, I tried my best at op.120, and there it came to a halt. It just doesn't work for me, I think it has no unity like the Bach, it has no statement like the Brahms, both!, it has no fun like the Reger, it is just a lot of, well, variations...They were created in a new way, certainly, but in a nice way? No. I think dear Ludwig was at the height of his powers of invention, he spent more time and love and genius on the Missa Solemnis and did not have anymore left for this stupid/funny idea by Diabelli. Only the fact that von Bülow said something about this piece as being the microcosm of Beethoven's genius one and a half century ago and that the parrotcircus has had no interruption is an example of how musiccritic works. Op. 111 is Beethoven's last word, not the Diabelli or those late Bagatelles.


Even though I love the Diabellis, there is a feeling I sometimes have that they're not somehow "necessary". Whatever that means. I don't feel that way about op.111, or about the Goldberg Variations.

So I kind of get where dolce is coming from. The only thing that really ruffles me here is when he also puts down "those late Bagatelles". Op.119 are hit-or-miss homemade science experiments, but the op.126 set consists of six etched gems, the perfect epilogue to 111's "last word".

-J



Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,460
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,460
The original waltz by Diabelli is nowhere to be found?

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
It's the theme that appears at the start of Beethoven's Op. 120.


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
I'm ok with dolce liking Op. 111 and the Missa Solemnis.
I will continue to like those pieces and the Diabelli Variations too smile
They are about as "unnecessary" as playtime.

(and no one will stop me from loving op. 126, I mean, really.)

Last edited by hreichgott; 09/08/16 10:01 PM.

Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,624
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14,624
Let's not forget the 'alternative' Diabelli Variations - by such luminaries as Czerny, Hummel, Schubert.......even a juvenile Liszt thumb.

These are just a few of the variations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIYdUh5Zn0c


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,460
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,460
I've been listening a bit trying to find one to say "I like it very much!" but it is not happening. frown I still have to listen to the Missa. So I probably prefer bennevis's because it is a mix and my favorite is the lighter one by the end. I like Moonlight Sonata but other than that Beethoven is not my thing, like Heavy Metal is not my thing either (lots of people love it though).

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,460
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,460
I am liking Missa smile

Quote
Beethoven, the Heavy Metal of the Early 19th Century!
http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/Beethoven-the-Heavy-Metal-of-th



Quote


I am not the first to think of Heavy Metal when listening to some Beethoven. laugh

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,746
Vid Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,746
Originally Posted by bennevis
Let's not forget the 'alternative' Diabelli Variations - by such luminaries as Czerny, Hummel, Schubert.......even a juvenile Liszt thumb.

These are just a few of the variations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIYdUh5Zn0c


Stumbled on this about a week ago. What fun!


  • Schimmel Upright
  • Kawai VPC-1 with Pianoteq

Any issues or concerns are piped to /dev/null
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 260
N
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 260
Heather -

Will you be recording these? I'd love to hear your take on them.


Mark Dierauf, RPT
NH Pianos
Piano technician & rebuilder since 1978
www.nhpianos.com
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
Hello Mark, I might record them eventually. I want to have a year or two of playing them first. I've really enjoyed your blog and recordings smile


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,153
W
wr Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,153
It was during a performance of the Diabellis by an advanced student in my college piano teacher's class that I had one of my first experiences of a peculiar otherworldly and sublime state that I now associate with late Beethoven. How Beethoven does it, I don't know, but a really good performance of the Diabellis can get me there by the time it gets to those final couple of pages.

I love playing through them for fun and amazement, but actually learning them, well, I dunno about that...

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 260
N
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 260
Originally Posted by hreichgott
Hello Mark, I might record them eventually. I want to have a year or two of playing them first. I've really enjoyed your blog and recordings smile


Thanks, Heather! You might also be interested in this article this article from the Beethoven Forum

Last edited by nhpianos; 09/19/16 08:27 PM.

Mark Dierauf, RPT
NH Pianos
Piano technician & rebuilder since 1978
www.nhpianos.com
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
!!!!!! I literally got teary upon seeing that website. Thanks Mark. Now I have a lot of things to read.


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
Learning the fugue. It gets stuck in my head. It has two subjects. And there is NO way I can sing it.


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,169
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,169
Originally Posted by hreichgott
Learning the fugue. It gets stuck in my head. It has two subjects...

Two subjects? I always thought of it as a single-subject fugue.

It does switch textures half-way through, of course. (Similar to the A major fugue of WTC I.) But I'd have said only one subject. One obsessed, neurotic, demanding, all-consuming subject!

-J

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 260
N
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 260
Originally Posted by beet31425
Originally Posted by hreichgott
Learning the fugue. It gets stuck in my head. It has two subjects...

Two subjects? I always thought of it as a single-subject fugue.

It does switch textures half-way through, of course. (Similar to the A major fugue of WTC I.) But I'd have said only one subject. One obsessed, neurotic, demanding, all-consuming subject!

-J


Actually, it has three subjects. The first two begin together, with the third (the one in sixteenth notes) arriving partway through and finally combining with the two original subjects. For me, this re-entrance of the original, repeated note subject is one of the most satisfying moments in the entire literature.


Mark Dierauf, RPT
NH Pianos
Piano technician & rebuilder since 1978
www.nhpianos.com
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
I will be duly surprised when I eventually arrive at the 16th note subject wink (not there yet...)


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
Originally Posted by wr
one of my first experiences of a peculiar otherworldly and sublime state that I now associate with late Beethoven. How Beethoven does it, I don't know

Could it have been this spot in var. 14? Those amazing modulations with fp, amid this gentle pastoral dreamworld, get me every time. And then things only get more magnificent from there.
[Linked Image]


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 260
N
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 260
Originally Posted by hreichgott
Originally Posted by wr
one of my first experiences of a peculiar otherworldly and sublime state that I now associate with late Beethoven. How Beethoven does it, I don't know

Could it have been this spot in var. 14? Those amazing modulations with fp, amid this gentle pastoral dreamworld, get me every time. And then things only get more magnificent from there.

All the big dominant 7th chords in this one caused me to think of it as the Ray Charles variation! (I mean this in the best possible way).

Last edited by nhpianos; 09/28/16 06:51 AM.

Mark Dierauf, RPT
NH Pianos
Piano technician & rebuilder since 1978
www.nhpianos.com
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,390
Some food for thought from Matthew Bengtson's article (thanks Mark):

Quote
Both visions of the work are possible—the playful diversion by
Beethoven to put an upstart composer in his proper place, as a publisher of other
people’s music, or the very serious work, the pinnacle, the creative summation of
the piano output of a creative genius. Ideally, of course, a pianist should be both
a stand-up comic and a philosopher in this work, and there are opportunities for
both. A performance lacking one of these elements would have to be regarded as
limited.


(Sometimes I wonder if musical scholars appreciate playful joy as a real and profound emotion, every bit as creative and genius and as "serious" in its way as a serious and philosophical mood...)


Heather W. Reichgott, piano

Working on:
Beethoven - Diabelli Variations Op. 120
Beethoven/Liszt - Symphony no. 7
Tommy (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Juggling Piano!
by Sam S - 06/14/21 07:25 PM
Please help: Kawai ST-1 (institutional) or K-300?
by SantaCecilia - 06/14/21 07:11 PM
Kawai VPC1 velocity curve
by luigigiul76 - 06/14/21 06:17 PM
Quality of the piano dealership shop
by lct14558 - 06/14/21 05:58 PM
Studio piano vsts? eg Ivory, Alicia's Keys
by MarkOfJohnson - 06/14/21 05:30 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,515
Posts3,103,681
Members101,810
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5