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Interesting drama you've engaged in here Pamela.
One of the things I noticed in your many postings on this thread is your constant reference to your mother in law , as 'the MIL'. As if she is some kind of object, devoid of feeling or a part of your family.
I would suggest this matter needs to be discussed between you and her, and not here on a public world wide internet site.
Personally if I was in your situation (and I certainly don't know all the details) I would let her know that you'd only be interested in this piano if it could be properly restored. Even though she may feel that it already has been restored via the large amount of money she already has spent , you may be able to help her understand that it was mostly surface details that were attended to. It would seem a shame if an instrument of this quality didn't have the proper restoration/rebuilding work done on it , no matter who comes in to possession of it. If you are not truly interested in inheriting this piano , other than for financial gain, I wonder what your lengthy dramatization is about here.

Last evening, 'piano broker' gave you a very thorough and detailed response on possibilities and details regarding the Steinway L. It appears you haven't responded to his posting, yet for whatever reason today you chose to change your avatar to the one he uses.


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Interesting drama? Only since you have decided to create it.

How about let her spend the money the way she wants? No confrontation with the IL is necessary. It's apparent the MIL wants her to be happy. She won't be able to get that with the current piano.

Let's keep things more finance oriented than drama oriented. Much less messy. I'm here to discuss pianos, not watch a soap opera.

Anyway, back to subject. I'm not entirely sure how the new CX series benefits from the Bosendorfer acquisition. I heard some of the materials used come from the same factory as the Bosendorfer's. Other than that, Yamaha and indeed everyone else who may be in the know have been very secretive. Yamaha themselves would like us to believe that it is entirely their conception, claiming the evolution of tradition or some such marketing spiel. What was the state of development of the CFX before and after the acqusition of Bosendorfer? I would find that very interesting.

Last edited by sirwormsalot; 04/15/16 03:16 AM.
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It seems to me, that the CFX was in desperate need of know how by Bösendorfer! wink
SCNR

Personally I love the sound of Bösendorfer (if it stays the way it was in the past), and I dislike the brilliant sound of some of the smaller (and more affordable) Yamaha grands.

After visiting the new Böserndorfer factory (now south of Vienna, very friendly people!), I think it is a small but very fine shop compared to what Yamaha must be maintaining in Japan. In small quantities, it would possible to transfer materials to another factory (wood, bass strings, ...), probably more likely, handicraft know-how for manually produced, expensive grand pianos.

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To answer the question, Is there anyone else in the family that can take the piano? The answer is no, no one wants it. In fact the daughter has a Baldwin grand and doesn't want her mothers piano, ( I'm unclear about the reason and don't want to ask) and this is the piano she grew up playing. So there you have it. I'm the one that's left and that plays.


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I appreciate Pianobrokers post and I read through it 4 times and have been thinking about it. He sounds like he knows what he is talking about due to the incredible details he mentions even answered the question about the ivory keys! He thinks it had them. I'm skeptical about how he is so sure he can make it sound the way it should sound. It looks as if I'd end up paying him to pick it up, do the work and then if I didn't like it, he'd buy the new redone piano from me and sell me another one, and it would have to be a Steinway at his factory.... Humm he stands to make a lot of money off this. At least that's the way I'm looking at it.

To Dara, who's chiming in late in the game: 1. Thank you for paying close attention to detail! I changed my avatar because I felt like it since I'm writing so much, are there rules about changing your avatar? I'm on my phone so I don't even see people's avatars, but that's an interesting comment. 2. I am writing MIL because that's easier to write rather than Mother-in-law. I love her, I don't want to hurt her, she's giving me probably her most prized possession and I'm grateful about all of that. I'm feeling really torn about this situation that's why I came to the forum in the first place to get others ideas and opinions! This has been happening all within a short space of time, so it's kind of felt overwhelming at times and it's nice to hear many various voices of reason. I'm sorry if your perception is that this is a drama. It's not for me. It's an important thing that is unfolding in my life. I'm open to what you havve to say and I respect your opinions. I'm glad your here.


Last edited by Bach48; 04/15/16 01:35 PM.

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Originally Posted by Bach48
Humm he stands to make a lot of money off this. At least that's the way I'm looking at it.

I honestly do not think Pianobroker was trying to solicit your business. I honestly thought he was just trying to help by sharing his vast experience and knowledge by discussing your possible options with the S&S L. He already has more business than he knows what to do with... smile

Also, in my view, most every poster/respondent to your thread has done so in an effort to be helpful.

You'll find that there are many friendly and knowledgeable folks here on PW who's only motive is to help. And, with that said, your thread has gotten a lot of attention, mostly from folks who want to help. smile So, you've got a lot to think about..

All the best,

Rick


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Originally Posted by Bach48
I appreciate Pianobrokers post and I read through it 4 times and have been thinking about it. He sounds like he knows what he is talking about due to the incredible details he mentions even answered the question about the ivory keys! He thinks it had them. I'm skeptical about how he is so sure he can make it sound the way it should sound.

Pianobroker suggested to come play his restored Steinways and see what you think. If you like his company's work, then you would have an idea of what the L could be capable of.


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Originally Posted by twocats
Originally Posted by Bach48
I appreciate Pianobrokers post and I read through it 4 times and have been thinking about it. He sounds like he knows what he is talking about due to the incredible details he mentions even answered the question about the ivory keys! He thinks it had them. I'm skeptical about how he is so sure he can make it sound the way it should sound.

Pianobroker suggested to come play his restored Steinways and see what you think. If you like his company's work, then you would have an idea of what the L could be capable of.

ditto

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Pamela
You need to understand that every technician, dealer and restorer on this forum participates, for free, not as a means of getting more business, but providing information to those that have problems. Period. Teachers help out not as a means of getting new students, but as a means of giving to other pianists... beginning or advanced.

Your written skepticism in unfair... and I hope that the remainder of us here who value these professionals, do not lose their assistance as a result of postings such as that one from you.

I hope the angels come soon and tell you how to handle your problem.


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Oh come on... Some people here clearly value professional identity, otherwise they would post anonymously. That isn't to say they are unwelcome, quite the contrary. They have valuable expertise to contribute and they know it. It's perfectly within their right to publish themselves a bit. Although some people perhaps go about it in the wrong way I don't think that was the case here. I might however suggest pianobroker paragraph and spell-check his sentences though. Also, perhaps a PM would have been more succinct but who am I to judge the business of another?

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that even the most altruistic action is selfish at some level. There has to be some gain in order for a behaviour to be repeated.


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Originally Posted by sirwormsalot
The point being even the most altruistic action is selfish at some level. There has to be some gain in order for a behaviour to be repeated. That's just life.

I totally agree with this. I see some people who obviously know that their helpfulness results in others singing their praises. That's all fine; just take people's opinions with a grain of salt.


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Originally Posted by dogperson
Pamela
You need to understand that every technician, dealer and restorer on this forum participates, for free, not as a means of getting more business, but providing information to those that have problems. Period.


I really wish I could agree with this, but I don't. When I came here about two years ago asking what a reasonable price was for a particular piano I was interested in/inclined to buy, I received a PM from a tech/rebuilder (and a very active poster in this forum) in my geographical area encouraging me to come look at their selection since I might find something I'm interested in. I found it disconcerting since I had already said in my first post that I was inclined on a particular instrument and was merely verifying that the price was reasonable. It seemed like an advertisement / self promotion which that same tech has done in numerous other posts on this forum over the past several years.

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Originally Posted by benjamink
I really wish I could agree with this, but I don't. When I came here about two years ago asking what a reasonable price was for a particular piano I was interested in/inclined to buy, I received a PM from a tech/rebuilder (and a very active poster in this forum) in my geographical area encouraging me to come look at their selection since I might find something I'm interested in. I found it disconcerting since I had already said in my first post that I was inclined on a particular instrument and was merely verifying that the price was reasonable. It seemed like an advertisement / self promotion which that same tech has done in numerous other posts on this forum over the past several years.

Sure, this happens frequently on PW, I would imagine. But it is well within the forum rules if done via PM (I think smile ).

It is no secret that the piano dealers/rebuilders here cruise the forums often looking for potential customers. If they happen to send you a PM soliciting your business, and you do not welcome it, either tell them so or use the ignore feature to block that member's posts or PMs.

Some dealer members here attempt to promote themselves and their businesses in every word they write/post, even if under the guise of offering an opinion. I could give some examples, but we all know who they are. smile

Nevertheless, their posts are often helpful or at least entertaining in some way.

In my view, we need/want the dealer/rebuilder members here, even if they do attempt to get in a freebie ad or self-promote in some way on occasion.

Is everything posted here on PW done for some ulterior, selfish motive? I don't think so...

Let's see... what do I have to sell or promote here on PW, besides my own ignorance? I can't think of anything except maybe my YouTube music videos (which are really not that good). smile

Just my .02.

Rick



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Originally Posted by sirwormsalot
Some people here clearly value professional identity, otherwise they would post anonymously.


Actually, one of the rules of the forum is that anyone in the business is required to identify themselves as such.

As for Pianobroker, Tony is a good capable guy located in the San Fernando Valley. If you're farther south, Robert Estrin in Santa Ana is an equally worthy choice. The problem with going to either of them is that it doesn't make economic sense to ship a core piano 2000 miles if there's little chance that you'd want it no matter how well it might be rebuilt.

One problem is to tactfully dispose of the Steinway L where it is. That means finding a rebuilder in St. Louis or Chicago.

The other problem is to get a piano you'll be happy with. So, go to Tony and Robert, and Hollywood Piano, and Keyboard Concepts, and anywhere else you can find, and look at C6's and C7's.



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Originally Posted by Rickster

Sure, this happens frequently on PW, I would imagine. But it is well within the forum rules if done via PM (I think smile ).


When this occurs in a PM, it is no less annoying than when it occurs in an open thread, in my opinion. Especially, since one typically feels compelled to respond to PMs. In my case the PM was sent just a few hours after my first post here on PW. Sigh... Anyways, I didn't post this here to dredge up the past. I posted it merely because it contradicted with dogperson's post.

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Originally Posted by benjamink
When this occurs in a PM, it is no less annoying than when it occurs in an open thread, in my opinion. Especially, since one typically feels compelled to respond to PMs. In my case the PM was sent just a few hours after my first post here on PW. Sigh... Anyways, I didn't post this here to dredge up the past. I posted it merely because it contradicted with dogperson's post.

You make a good point, Benjamin.

In fact, I would equate such a PM to a telemarketing call, which I hate with a passion.

As far as disagreeing with me or dogperson, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. None of us agree 100% of the time. smile

All the best!

Rick


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This is such a long thread, I'm not sure if someone said this before, but this is what I'd do. I'd hire a competent tech to check out the piano in your MIL's house. It would be easy and truthful to say that the piano doesn't feel quite right, and you want to find out any cost associated with it getting it in proper playing condition before the move. If he finds problems, he can describe them, and should be able to give you an approximate cost to have them rectified.

You can share the tech's findings with your MIL, and hopefully with the input from a disinterested professional, both she and you could agree on a good course of action.

Good luck. No matter what happens don't keep a piano you don't like--it will take all the pleasure out of playing.

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Ok, I'll join the fray with just a couple of thoughts... One is that you really should love the piano you play. It sounds like you've had that experience in the past - and thus, I'm not sure you'll ever be happy with the L. The Yamaha's tonal qualities appeal to you.

The second element of this are the feelings of the people involved. You're in a better position to evaluate how things would go - but I will bring one additional thought to this and that is the heaviness of the action. I had a piano with a very heavy action. The tonal qualities of the instrument were incredible - but the action was really tough. I'd grown up on a really light action - and when I moved to ultra heavy action, I thought that this would make it easier for to play other actions that were invariably lighter. While there was some truth to that, a heavy action also has limitations - and the possibility of injury over time. That might be the key to the dilemma - that while you "love their piano" - you're concerned that the action is a bit too tough for you.

If it were me?? I'd take the piano - and after a modestly short period of time, I'd find a dealer to work a trade on a piano that I loved. I'd explain the action business to his parents as the reason for the trade. "It wasn't working out."

Last story...My parents were pseudo horders. My mother was ill for a long time - and couldn't bake or cook. When she passed, there were boxes of cake mixes and such. When I visited, he'd give me some boxes - and I'd thank him like we were getting free treasures. He was happy feeling that he'd not wasted food - and it was going to a good place. I'd toss the several year old mixes away when I got home. He'd had enough sorrow - and it helped him feel a bit better. It cost me nothing.

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Uh....Bach48 I'm sorry you feel that I have some ulterior motive in trying to assist you in your dilemna. That is not the case by any means. I don't want your previously restored Steinway L at any price. It is not apart of my business model. I purchase "all original" unrestored vintage Steinway grands and remanufacture them in our inhouse facility period. As for me making a boatload of $ from you, I really don't see that scenario. As I previously mentioned I was intrigued with your situation and was willing to assist in your resolve. I'm in southern CA. and am quite aware of where you bought your piano and traded it etc.etc. so you've already been raked over the coals once or twice already. Again I don't sell Yamaha so a tradein would not be an option or any incentive for me anyway. I kinda have this feeling that you've never really experienced a high level Steinway remanufacture so you are obviously drawn to this high precision C.N.C Japanese manufacture of their NEW pianos. That is quite normal. My offer still stands as for assisting you getting the L back to L.A. The long distance mover is delivering a couple Steinway grands for me to the midwest and could pick it up on the way back to California You would probably save big $. We would assess your piano and it's possible cost effective measures for improvement. In the end if Steinway is not your thing than you can sell it on the open market here in Los Angeles much more readily than Chicago. Good luck in your dilemna.


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Exactly, I have 5-6 spec vintage Steinway L(s) already done, One could get a fairly good idea of the capabilities of the firm. Talk is cheap! Sample the wares of finished stuff that one has to offer.


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