2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
38 members (Badzz80, anotherscott, ColoRodney, 36251, Blake123, ambrozy, 1957, 7 invisible), 825 guests, and 532 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,110
C
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,110
I'm having a heck of a time with this sonata. At least certain parts of it. Anyone learn it that has general advice?

Specifically I'm having some trouble getting clarity on the trills/ornaments that happen right before and after the broken octaves that end the exposition and start the development.

Also if you have any tips on the arpeggios that start the development that would be helpful. I find many sections in the first and 4th movement pretty awkward to play.

Thanks

Cheeto


"I was obliged to be industrious. Whoever is equally industrious will succeed equally well."

J.S. Bach
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,979
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,979
I've played this sonata! Did it a little over a year ago. Lightness of touch for those ornaments is a must. Practice the ornaments very slowly, but be very light with your touch and quickly flick your fingers back after each note. Like you've very quickly and lightly scratching each key. Obviously, you won't do this in performance, but it's a way to emphasize quickly coming off the key, and not putting too much weight on the note, which will slow you down. Once you get that down, speed the ornaments up a little bit, and don't do as much of the "scratching," but still focus on a lightness of touch while being even. Once you get that solid, try it at various faster tempos.

And use the pedal for each ornament, too. smile

Regarding the arpeggios in the development, you need a flexible wrist and good hand position. No extra tension, and a good transferring of arm weight through each finger. This would be difficult to explain on the board, so your teacher would be your best bet.

In the fourth movement, do you find the sixteenth note runs in the opening section awkward? I just had to do slow metronome practice and speed it up gradually until I was at full speed. Once again, good hand position is a must, or else you'll have a heck of a time getting it even.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,061
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,061
I learned the 1st mvt. of this eons ago as an entering freshman in music school--bit off almost more than I could chew. 😀

As I recall, those trills sound and play better if they start slower and speed up during the trill: they should not be initially pushed. Also, try to match the right hand to the trill in the left, not the other way around, for the sync (don't let the RH get ahead of the left). As OSK says, hand position is the ticket for the arpeggios.

I talked my teacher into learning the "Tempest" instead of the rest of op. 2, no. 3, so I don't have any actual playing advice for the last mvt. I do recall hearing an interview where Johnny Costa said that it inspired the ascending chords opening Mister Rogers' theme (of all things).

http://youtu.be/Vtc7A67kZlQ



WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 91
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 91
When I saw the topic I thought you'd ask about the double thirds fingering in the beginning... One solution is to play with the left hand notes C and B in the first bar. But I guess everybody knows that.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,061
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,061
Originally Posted by Molto lombardo
When I saw the topic I thought you'd ask about the double thirds fingering in the beginning... One solution is to play with the left hand notes C and B in the first bar. But I guess everybody knows that.


I wondered that too--hard right off the bat.

1-4, 2-3, 1-4, etc. for the thirds, strong finger paired with weak.


WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,110
C
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,110
Yes that intro is killer. I can also recount several other sonatas that have a horribly technical difficulty right at the beginning. Thanks Beethoven...

I started to learn this sonata years ago and came back to it recently. It has taken me a loooong time and a lot of experimentation with that intro but I finally am getting it to sound how I want. I actually ended up using 2-3, 1-5, 2-3, 1-5 for those opening thirds.

Keep your eye out on the recordings forum, I'd like to upload the movement for you guys to take a look at, I'd love to get some critique.

OSK, the 4th movement runs are actually pretty good. It's later on when the left hand has the 16th accompaniment figure starting in D major that gives me a lot of trouble. And the bad news is it happens again later in a much tougher key. Other than that the movement is ok except for another short passage where the right hand has some more double thirds that lead back into the main theme.


"I was obliged to be industrious. Whoever is equally industrious will succeed equally well."

J.S. Bach

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
I want to take on a boondoggle of a restoration project:
by berninicaco3 - 06/17/21 10:11 PM
how often is new piano coming in with scratches?
by Blake123 - 06/17/21 09:24 PM
How do you get a sound like this?
by Mavs972 - 06/17/21 08:54 PM
does yamaha sell an entire keybed?
by berninicaco3 - 06/17/21 08:22 PM
Best Format for external SSD using MAC
by Mta88 - 06/17/21 04:03 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,575
Posts3,104,688
Members101,841
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5