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Not the fiendishly difficult 'Heroic' Polonaise in A flat (Op 53)... the other one!

I've been making good progress with this piece until reaching bar (measure) 45, in which semiquavers (16th notes) in the right hand are played against three groups of quaver (eighth note) triplets in the left hand. Try as I might I can't get the 'offset' balance right between both hands... anyone help, please?

Last edited by cruiser; 11/18/15 11:37 AM.

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....oh well, guess this is a question for the other forum!


Michael
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Three against four is for me more of a feeling than it is one of counting. But it is possible to find the rhythm the right and left hand creates when playing.


o . . o . . o . . o . . |o . . o . . o . . o . . |
o . . . o . . . o . . . |o . . . o . . . o . . . |


When played slowly at first you get the feel of the rhythm.

I don't have the music at hand, but I will take a look how it actually is in the piece you mentioned when I'm back home.

Last edited by chopinoholic; 11/19/15 03:58 AM.

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Put both hands above your lap drop them both together and say 'Give'. Lift them both and drop only right and say 'me', drop left and say 'a', lift and drop right and say 'cup', lift and drop left and say 'of', lift and drop right and say 'tea'. Repeat over again so many times. 'me' needs to be a little delayed. Here the initial turn is done on 'me'.

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Thank you both so much for your help. Unfortunately, as yet and try as I might, I just can't 'get it'... much more difficult than patting the head whilst rubbing the stomach!

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It is difficult indeed. Keep on it! wink


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Originally Posted by chopinoholic
It is difficult indeed. Keep on it! wink


I will Paul, and I'll report back when it's 'clicked'! smile


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Originally Posted by cruiser
Thank you both so much for your help. Unfortunately, as yet and try as I might, I just can't 'get it'... much more difficult than patting the head whilst rubbing the stomach!


If you take baby steps you will get it. But I am also thinking that if the 3 against 4 rhythm is difficult, the Polonaise may pose other challenges.
1. Get the rhythm "Give me a cup of tea" in your head by tapping your hands to this on a table or other hard surface.
2. On the piano tap the rhythm using only 1 finger and 1 note in each hand.
3. Now pick 3 consecutive notes in LH and 4 in RH on the piano and say out loud "Give me a cup of tea:.
4. Play beat 3 of the example using the correct notes. Once you have that down play beat 2 and then beat 1.
5. Play the entire measure shown in the example.

If that doesn't work, go back to a previous step.

Last edited by PianogrlNW; 11/19/15 11:41 AM.


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PianogrlNW, with the exception of less than perfect trills, this measure is the only one that's causing me real difficulties. On closer analysis I think my main problem is knowing exactly which note of the ornament corresponds to 'me' in the useful learning aid both you and chopin_r-us refer to. As far as I can work out, it's the A natural. My copy notates the ornament note for note above the staff but I may have trouble posting it here.


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The ornament starts on 'me' and you've got to play all 4 notes in that tiny space of a semiquaver before the following C. Does the overall speed allow for that?

I wish I could have fitted 'please' into that sentence - it sounds a bit brusque (the kind of request you'd get on the continent).

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I confess I'm confused... trying to post a scan of my score but not being very successful.


Michael
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I upload to tinypic and paste in the forum code.

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[Linked Image]

ok, this is the bar in question form my "CHOPIN - An Introduction to His Piano Works' score. If you look carefully beneath the turn symbol, you'll see a faint natural sign. My thinking is that this indicates that the A natural in the turn is the timing point - the 'me' point - for coordination (offsetting) with the E in the first left-hand triplet group (rather than the start of the turn). I hope this makes sense... as I say, I'm a little confused!

By the way I love this 'easier' Chopin Polonaise which is, apparently, at grade 7 level. I'm determined to learn it!


Michael
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I'd do this turn:

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I continue to struggle with this bar.
Curiously, when I learned to play Brahms' Intermezzo Op118 No2, I had no such difficulty in mastering a similar RH-LH relationship in the lovely mid-section (bars 49-56). It's definitely the turn that's putting me off and causing my timing problem with the Polonaise, since I have no difficulty with the notes on the 2nd and 3rd beats. As soon as I try and include the first group the whole thing goes to pot! I'll persevere.

EDIT: It's coming together, by adopting a 'feel' rather than counting approach. Thanks for all the invaluable help!

Last edited by cruiser; 11/20/15 08:40 AM.

Michael

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