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hi,
I know this kind of question's been asked all the time, but since piano is pretty costly i need to make sure that it's not a futile attempt. please bear with me.

I'm 30 yo (male, not that it matters i think), no musical talent/background/experience whatsoever (except singing in karaoke). I can't read musical note, don't know what chord is, don't know any musical terms, When i listen to a song, I can mimic it (like most people do) but i can't identify/recognize the note (pitch?).

to compare it to driving; perhaps it's like I don't know how to drive, i don't know which button/stick do what function, which road to take, what the road signs mean & someone has just poked my eyes.

as for the motivation to learn piano (this is gonna sound silly); I have this urge to "learn" something about 2 months ago, I met this smart person (work related) & he made me think that i've been wasting my time without learning anything new (most of my time are spent between work & playing video games).

So at first i looked for university in my town that offer masters degree but there's not one in my area, can't go to the city cos i've got work to do.

and then i thought perhaps i should settle for something informal, like learning foreign language (japanese or korean) but again, no such courses to be found in my area.

and one day (earlier this month) on my ride home i happened to listen to the song "dream a little dream of me", accompanied by piano (I think the one i've heard is sung by Diana krall, couldn't find it on youtube) and here I am, switching my goal from getting college degree to be able to play piano decently.

the goal is like to be able to play piano preferably the jazzy lounge music type like this one (i hope i got the genre correct) or this one

I've got no delusion of becoming a pro or to play in public, i "just" (i know it's still not easy) need it to be good enough for my self to enjoy it & not offending the neighbors so i can get the same high/sense of accomplishment i got when i play & finish a good video games or when i finally be able to swim (have just learned how to swim several months ago, the elderly can still swim faster than me).

so....brutal honesty... is it a lost cause or there's still hope for me?

if there's a chance, then:
  • if the goal is to be able to play piano, should i go and get me a piano or should i use a keyboard first? or maybe they're so different that one doesn't necessarily complements the other?
  • let's say i can spend 1 hour/day & 4-5 days a week, how many years will it takes for me to be able to decently play a song like i mentioned above?
  • anything else i should know?


thanks for any advice given smile

Last edited by ambun; 09/18/15 11:27 PM.
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Hi,

i started playing in my forties, three years ago, when one of my children (briefly)
started playing (and then gave up).
I began with a digital keyboard, because a piano is a large investment and i didn't know if i'd stick with it.

So what you are thinking of doing is reasonable, imho.

The bad news is that getting any good will take time.
I would have made faster progress if i'd had a teacher from the beginning, but i think that you are looking at three to five years to play pieces "well", and i don't think i've reached that stage yet so i may be underestimating.

I can hear that i am progressing though, and get a lot of enjoyment out of playing.

I know several other people who started instruments as adults, and they all gave up after a few months, but my advice would be to give it a go anyway.




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I gave up playing video games, and spend that same time playing piano. It was not hard to do. If you like RPGs and "grinding" to level up, then you might like playing piano. It takes a lot of work to get better, but when you see yourself improving, it makes you want to play more. It's more rewarding than video games, because you are learning something that will stay with you forever, and you are making music, and that is just cool.

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Originally Posted by ambun

so....brutal honesty... is it a lost cause or there's still hope for me?

thanks for any advice given smile


Over the years I have developed an expertise in guiding the adult learner at the piano. (No, I don't teach using Skype.) I'm going to be brutally honest and tell you that of course you can do this! It is not unrealistic.

Buy or rent a digital piano or an acoustic piano, find a friendly teacher who has some comfort with your goals, and plunge in. Give this at least a year and send us an update.

My prophecy is that you will find this one of the best things you have ever done, and piano playing will be a part of your life for many years to come.

P.S. You might want to start out with a semester of beginning adult piano in group format at a community centre or college. That's another way to go at first. I have mixed feelings about such an approach, but sometimes it's great.

Last edited by Peter K. Mose; 09/19/15 12:32 AM.
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Originally Posted by ambun
hi,
I know this kind of question's been asked all the time, but since piano is pretty costly i need to make sure that it's not a futile attempt. please bear with me.

I'm 30 yo (male, not that it matters i think), no musical talent/background/experience whatsoever (except singing in karaoke). I can't read musical note, don't know what chord is, don't know any musical terms, When i listen to a song, I can mimic it (like most people do) but i can't identify/recognize the note (pitch?).

to compare it to driving; perhaps it's like I don't know how to drive, i don't know which button/stick do what function, which road to take, what the road signs mean & someone has just poked my eyes.

as for the motivation to learn piano (this is gonna sound silly); I have this urge to "learn" something about 2 months ago, I met this smart person (work related) & he made me think that i've been wasting my time without learning anything new (most of my time are spent between work & playing video games).

So at first i looked for university in my town that offer masters degree but there's not one in my area, can't go to the city cos i've got work to do.

and then i thought perhaps i should settle for something informal, like learning foreign language (japanese or korean) but again, no such courses to be found in my area.

and one day (earlier this month) on my ride home i happened to listen to the song "dream a little dream of me", accompanied by piano (I think the one i've heard is sung by Diana krall, couldn't find it on youtube) and here I am, switching my goal from getting college degree to be able to play piano decently.

the goal is like to be able to play piano preferably the jazzy lounge music type like this one (i hope i got the genre correct) or this one

I've got no delusion of becoming a pro or to play in public, i "just" (i know it's still not easy) need it to be good enough for my self to enjoy it & not offending the neighbors so i can get the same high/sense of accomplishment i got when i play & finish a good video games or when i finally be able to swim (have just learned how to swim several months ago, the elderly can still swim faster than me).

so....brutal honesty... is it a lost cause or there's still hope for me?

if there's a chance, then:
  • if the goal is to be able to play piano, should i go and get me a piano or should i use a keyboard first? or maybe they're so different that one doesn't necessarily complements the other?
  • let's say i can spend 1 hour/day & 4-5 days a week, how many years will it takes for me to be able to decently play a song like i mentioned above?
  • anything else i should know?


thanks for any advice given smile


Yes, it's definitely possible - will be a continual progression in skill as you learn and practice.

Many years ago, when I was teaching, my wife started a lady who was about 80yo, and she progressed slowly, but consistently. I also started some in their 20s - 40s.

I'd seriously consider a teacher, particularly at the start. Even if you don't have a teacher long-term, starting off with a teacher will ensure that you don't imprint bad habits on day one, which will take a lot of work to eliminate. It will also give you more incentive to practice. Interview the prospective teacher, to ensure that they are able to work with an adult student - some are more focused on 6-9 yr olds, with little experience with an adult.

Personally, I'd suggest an acoustic piano - a keyboard is quite un-fulfilling to play. Some digital pianos are reasonable - and could work for you, but they don't have the same feel, sound and response as the real thing. If you're going digital, you might find a used one - make sure it's has sturdy legs, a proper sustain pedal - the X shaped supports which some people mount them on are poor. And you need a comfortable, preferably adjustable bench.

There could be some psychology involved with your learning related to your purchase - it's possible that if you bought a cheap keyboard, your incentive to practice would be much less than if you paid a substantial amount for (taking it to the ridiculous extreme) a concert grand piano (which I wouldn't suggest - at least till you've been learning a few years).

If you're buying a used piano, its a good idea to get it checked out by a technician, to ensure that you're not buying something with expensive repairs coming up. Again best to budget for a good bench, as most don't come with ones which are in the right position.

You may be able to hire a piano, depending on your location.

Enjoy the journey.

If you're buying a piano, the Piano Forum could be of help - if buying a Digital, there is a Digital Forum as well.


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Originally Posted by backto_study_piano
Originally Posted by ambun
hi,
I know this kind of question's been asked all the time, but since piano is pretty costly i need to make sure that it's not a futile attempt. please bear with me.

I'm 30 yo (male, not that it matters i think), no musical talent/background/experience whatsoever (except singing in karaoke). I can't read musical note, don't know what chord is, don't know any musical terms, When i listen to a song, I can mimic it (like most people do) but i can't identify/recognize the note (pitch?).

to compare it to driving; perhaps it's like I don't know how to drive, i don't know which button/stick do what function, which road to take, what the road signs mean & someone has just poked my eyes.

as for the motivation to learn piano (this is gonna sound silly); I have this urge to "learn" something about 2 months ago, I met this smart person (work related) & he made me think that i've been wasting my time without learning anything new (most of my time are spent between work & playing video games).

So at first i looked for university in my town that offer masters degree but there's not one in my area, can't go to the city cos i've got work to do.

and then i thought perhaps i should settle for something informal, like learning foreign language (japanese or korean) but again, no such courses to be found in my area.

and one day (earlier this month) on my ride home i happened to listen to the song "dream a little dream of me", accompanied by piano (I think the one i've heard is sung by Diana krall, couldn't find it on youtube) and here I am, switching my goal from getting college degree to be able to play piano decently.

the goal is like to be able to play piano preferably the jazzy lounge music type like this one (i hope i got the genre correct) or this one

I've got no delusion of becoming a pro or to play in public, i "just" (i know it's still not easy) need it to be good enough for my self to enjoy it & not offending the neighbors so i can get the same high/sense of accomplishment i got when i play & finish a good video games or when i finally be able to swim (have just learned how to swim several months ago, the elderly can still swim faster than me).

so....brutal honesty... is it a lost cause or there's still hope for me?

if there's a chance, then:
  • if the goal is to be able to play piano, should i go and get me a piano or should i use a keyboard first? or maybe they're so different that one doesn't necessarily complements the other?
  • let's say i can spend 1 hour/day & 4-5 days a week, how many years will it takes for me to be able to decently play a song like i mentioned above?
  • anything else i should know?


thanks for any advice given smile


Yes, it's definitely possible - will be a continual progression in skill as you learn and practice.

Many years ago, when I was teaching, my wife started a lady who was about 80yo, and she progressed slowly, but consistently. I also started some in their 20s - 40s.

I'd seriously consider a teacher, particularly at the start. Even if you don't have a teacher long-term, starting off with a teacher will ensure that you don't imprint bad habits on day one, which will take a lot of work to eliminate. It will also give you more incentive to practice. Interview the prospective teacher, to ensure that they are able to work with an adult student - some are more focused on 6-9 yr olds, with little experience with an adult.

Personally, I'd suggest an acoustic piano - a keyboard is quite un-fulfilling to play. Some digital pianos are reasonable - and could work for you, but they don't have the same feel, sound and response as the real thing. If you're going digital, you might find a used one - make sure it's has sturdy legs, a proper sustain pedal - the X shaped supports which some people mount them on are poor. And you need a comfortable, preferably adjustable bench.

There could be some psychology involved with your learning related to your purchase - it's possible that if you bought a cheap keyboard, your incentive to practice would be much less than if you paid a substantial amount for (taking it to the ridiculous extreme) a concert grand piano (which I wouldn't suggest - at least till you've been learning a few years).

If you're buying a used piano, its a good idea to get it checked out by a technician, to ensure that you're not buying something with expensive repairs coming up. Again best to budget for a good bench, as most don't come with ones which are in the right position.

You may be able to hire a piano, depending on your location.

Enjoy the journey.

If you're buying a piano, the Piano Forum could be of help - if buying a Digital, there is a Digital Forum as well.


I do wish people would stop muddying the waters. There are many pianos offered "free to good home" which are eminently fit for purpose, and digital pianos are great for quiet practice and are in no way inferior these days.

If you can read, write and type.. . just go for it and have fun.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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There is good news and bad news. The good news, it's not too late. Even if a person is average, with no special talent, he/she can learn to play piano. A person can dip their toe in with an entry level digital piano for about $500, plus the cost of some lessons.

The bad news, is that piano is time intensive, and can be money intensive. Most will suggest private lessons with a teacher. With a teacher, three to five years might be a reasonable amount of time for the goals you set. Yes, some exceptional people get there quicker, but some folks are also slower. Self-teaching is possible, but tends to be much slower.

If the itch is just to "learn something," there are plenty of online courses. Coursera.org and many universities offer free online courses. A person can take many courses similar to the popular 101 level courses offered at colleges for free or nominal cost. If learning a language is something you are interested in, there are courses, apps, and Skype allows a person to practice with native speakers.

If music is the interest, folk guitar, recorder, ukelele tend to be easier instruments to learn than piano.

As an aside I started with music late in life, latter than you are starting. I started about as small as possible with an $8 ocarina (a child's clay vessel flute). I went from ocarina to tin whistle to Irish flute to piano. I struggled with reading sheet music. So much so, that it led me to writing my own music.

Many years later, I can look back and see that my original music has gotten me through some dark times. Over the many years, I have performed live over 100 times. I have touched many lives with my performances, my music. I am about three years into the piano portion of the journey.

Last edited by Sand Tiger; 09/19/15 01:28 AM.
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As the others have said, go ahead and enjoy yourself. You can always sell a piano anyway can't you, I don't see that as a reason not to play. Get a teacher who can show you exactly what you want though, not a whole swag of boring rubbish you are not interested in. I suspect a good teacher of the type of playing you want to learn is somewhat rarer than the usual scales and classical brigade. One good thing about ageing is that we please ourselves and know exactly what we want, so let a prospective teacher hear a recording of something and ask, "Can you teach me how to do this, and more importantly, can you do this sort of thing yourself ?" If it doesn't look like it, interview others until you get a positive response. One thing an older person doesn't have is time to waste. Good luck.


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You are never too old to learn piano and definitely making music of any kind is never a lost cause. However piano requires many skill sets and most practice regimes revolve around improving these e.g. sight reading, theory, finger drills, aural drills, rhythm drills, scales, etc etc. Learning these skill sets can by dry at times so commitment and discipline are important factors. However because there are many areas that can be worked on, piano is never boring and added to that because learning an instrument opens our eyes and ears to a previously unknown world I think it is very good for the soul.

The first year of piano is daunting and as others have written getting a teacher will make it so much easier.

I have had a digital piano from the start and now nearly three years on I realise I really need a good acoustic. However the digital has served me well and when I finally upgrade I will keep it as my wife cannot stand the noise when I am practicing the same phrase over and over. I cannot blame her, it can be just as hard for me laugh BTW you can buy pianos with silent systems for playing with headphones.

If you go the digital route the minimum should be 88 full size and weighted keys. Keyboards (these are not digital pianos) are generally not weighted but may be touch sensitive. Some beginners start with keyboards but I would say you would be lucky to get six months to a year out of one before you needed to upgrade.

Last edited by earlofmar; 09/19/15 01:56 AM.

Surprisingly easy, barely an inconvenience.

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I don't believe it is a matter of age as much as a matter of persistence and willingness to work a bit harder than a child to learn the same amount.

It's one of those things that you just won't know until you try it. In many ways, practicing piano is really similar to practicing a video game. You need to repeat something specific over and over until you mastered it. You make many mistakes while practicing all along adjusting yourself until you stop making those mistakes and you move on to make new ones. If you find that process really fun, then you would enjoy piano.

Obviously, just like playing video games, the person who spends 6 hours a day on a game will play much better than the person who spends an hour or two a week on the same game. Playing piano is exactly like that.

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Originally Posted by Sand Tiger


The bad news, is that piano is time intensive, and can be money intensive.


Just to clarify though after the initial outlay for the piano, lessons are the next big expense, the next expense after that is sheet music and a $30 book of music is maybe all I would need for a year. Other expenses like magazine and online subscriptions as well as being low are optional. Compared to many other hobbies learning piano is quite reasonable.


Surprisingly easy, barely an inconvenience.

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I wish I had started when only 30 smile
But I had no interest on the keyboard until suddenly getting this idea at 45.

Your age really is nothing to worry about. Other things will determine whether you will succeed or not. And to succeed doesn't even have to mean you will become a proficient piano player. It just means that the piano will become a positive part of your life, any other measure is irrelevant IMO. How well you play, how difficult music you play or if you are able to perform...None of that matters really if you can enjoy the piano and the experience of playing and studying it.

The rewards one gets from piano studies can be very different. Some do get really good at it. For many people the learning process will help them enjoy listening to piano music much more. Some people simply find a way to rewind and relax with the piano. Piano can even be a social thing, even though it's so often associated with solitary practice sessions. None of this really depends on your age, but your physical and mental characteristics, your strengths and weaknesses and your personality.

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I don't think you have to work harder than a child. If anything it's much easier than as a child to understand things. The struggle is that understanding things and having high expectations is usually devastating for an adult when it meets the reality of how much effort it takes to actually get somewhere with a complex skill.

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Lost cause? You judge. I started in my 40's. 10+ years later having a great time playing gigs and streaming every night on Periscope (playing piano).

Wish I started in my 30's.


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hi, part of me expected the replies would be discouraging considering my age & (lack of/absence of) talent.

I can't reply to all of the posts, thank you all smile
Originally Posted by Sand Tiger

If the itch is just to "learn something," there are plenty of online courses. Coursera.org and many universities offer free online courses. A person can take many courses similar to the popular 101 level courses offered at colleges for free or nominal cost. If learning a language is something you are interested in, there are courses, apps, and Skype allows a person to practice with native speakers.

from my experience, these kind of "online" courses won't do since the effort shock from learning something could be pretty overwhelming, thus i'd need face to face meeting with a tutor/teacher if not for encouragement or shaming me to keep going.
Quote

If music is the interest, folk guitar, recorder, ukelele tend to be easier instruments to learn than piano.

I was interested with guitar once...when i was 13, to impress the girls, those times are over. It's piano or nothing musical at all.

btw, in my town there's no official/certified formal music courses, so i'd have to settle to learn with people with music job like those that play music on cafes.

for the past several days i've been looking for some tutor, found one that can play keyboard, still looking for a real piano player.

so....at the moment, while i'm still looking for a teacher & the piano (still need to order and the shipment to my town could take a while), is there anything i could/should learn without having the piano? any book to read? which part should i learn first? identifying a note? (that's what's called "ear training"?) or how to read musical note?

thanks smile

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Start with this: http://www.musictheory.net/lessons

They have an exercise section too.

Good luck!

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I think you will find that most of the adult beginners here are a good deal older than you. I certainly am! Go for it! What have you got to lose?


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Originally Posted by ambun
hi, part of me expected the replies would be discouraging considering my age & (lack of/absence of) talent.


If talent were a pre-requisite then few of us would be playing smirk

Originally Posted by ambun


is there anything i could/should learn without having the piano? any book to read? which part should i learn first? identifying a note? (that's what's called "ear training"?) or how to read musical note?

thanks smile


This link will take you to printable flash cards for treble and bass clef. Mix them up and test yourself until you can name notes quickly and accurately in preparation for your new adventure. There are online tools to do this as well but I liked the flash cards for a few different reasons.

This is an app to do the same thing.


Surprisingly easy, barely an inconvenience.

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I actually will be returning to video games to contextualize some of the theme music that I have been learning.

People here generally agree 'see if you like it, but don't get overly optomistic about how fast you can learn.' I started 9 months and 16 days ago and am still surprised about what I can't do, but pleased with what I can.

It's not too costly to dip your toe in the piano waters. You should be able to find a used keyboard under $100 and there are quite a few free online sites that are written for the pure beginner. Hope you try it and like it.



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If you aren't sure, get a keyboard or a digital piano. Make a goal, perhaps if you achieve a certain level (able to play some targeted pieces) after a year or two, and you still want to learn more, perhaps then consider an acoustic piano.

Take lessons.

Good luck!


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