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Originally Posted by look_alive
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
"Almost any space"? How about an enclosed room just big enough to fit the piano? That would be about 6' by 10' for your grand, but i bet your studio apartment is much larger.


Hence the qualifying word "ALMOST." It's preposterous to think anyone is talking about putting a piano in a room physically smaller than the piano's actual dimensions. Come on, now.
The space I gave wasn't smaller than your piano's dimensions and your piano could fit in a room that small. A piano is around 5' wide and I left a little more than four feet for the bench. I was objecting to several posters on this thread who keep on repeating that "If you like it you can make it fit(as in sound OK) in any room". Especially if the room is enclosed this is not true, so the the question becomes "When does the room get too small?" because that will happen before the piano cannot fit in a room.

So how big is your studio including any space your piano room opens up into with a space wider than a door?

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Originally Posted by Swarth
I would rather have power in reserve when I want it rather than asking and finding none available. That being said, I do not find my 9' to be any louder on average than any other piano, (SPL tested). However when called upon to project, it reaches every room in the house, there is no escape. Too much? Certainly so, but it matters not, you just have to adjust to keep control. Indeed a used 9' will cost less than a 7', simple supply and demand. What I have found is when the lid is down, more sound is directed to the pianist and indeed the tone is different. Is it actually louder? perhaps, but the perception is there. When the stick is full open the room comes into the equation much more and if it has issues (they all do) the results can be less than desirable and require some treatment to achieve athe sound you are looking for. Good luck, the Bosie 225 is a fantastic piano.


I agree about the sound difference from 9' and 7' but I have yet to see used 9 footers to be any cheaper, specifically Steinways.




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Originally Posted by Miguel Rey
Originally Posted by Swarth
I would rather have power in reserve when I want it rather than asking and finding none available. That being said, I do not find my 9' to be any louder on average than any other piano, (SPL tested). However when called upon to project, it reaches every room in the house, there is no escape. Too much? Certainly so, but it matters not, you just have to adjust to keep control. Indeed a used 9' will cost less than a 7', simple supply and demand. What I have found is when the lid is down, more sound is directed to the pianist and indeed the tone is different. Is it actually louder? perhaps, but the perception is there. When the stick is full open the room comes into the equation much more and if it has issues (they all do) the results can be less than desirable and require some treatment to achieve athe sound you are looking for. Good luck, the Bosie 225 is a fantastic piano.


I agree about the sound difference from 9' and 7' but I have yet to see used 9 footers to be any cheaper, specifically Steinways.
And I doubt many need the "power in reserve" of a concert grand in a home setting.

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Clearly people make room for the piano they want. I have, and so has my wife!

Leaving dreams aside for a moment, appropriate size and economics come into it. Some months ago now I popped into the Yamaha showroom in London. Thinking back, the CF6 was a powerful beast and a CF4 would have been a more rational choice for most living rooms.





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I'm not sure where you are looking but on EBay the prices asked for used Steinway model D's and B's are very close, some B's higher and some D's higher. What are they actually selling for? Hard to say, but I doubt it would take long to find even a suitable Steinway D for less than the same condition B.

...as for "power in reserve" I have no illusions that I would ever "need" it in a home setting. As I previously mentioned it already can fill the entire household without much effort. Why you must comment continuously in a manner meant to cast doubts on issues not in question is beyond me, but hey it's your opinion. My opinion stands as it's better to have more power in reserve than not.


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My case is on the extreme side, having a 7 ft (211cm) piano on a 5m x 4m music room, not even a living room. There are some tricks to "tame" the beast, by putting carpets below, and some soundproofing. I never regret buying a 7 ft piano, the sound & touch is just heavenly smile


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My concern is about my kids' hearing. In a room size that have been mentioned in the thread like 20x15' room, 12x18x8 room or 12x18x8 room, do you think that for young kids 6-7 year-old to practice piano in these size rooms daily on a 7-footer, will it have negative impact on their hearings in the future? A 7-footer no matter brand, is going to be quite powerful dB-wise.


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I don't play with lid open all the time, I usually use the shorter stick. And I put the string cover, to protect against humidity and to absorb the sound, I guess. I also do not bang the piano loudly, mostly I play relaxing pieces, though some demanding pieces like Beethoven Pathetique 1st mvt still sounds nice in my room. So to me, it's not too loud, but different room acoustic may produce significantly different sound.

Regarding the hearing, I am not medical expert, so I can't say anything about this, maybe other Forum members can give some enlightment.


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Originally Posted by angga888
My case is on the extreme side, having a 7 ft (211cm) piano on a 5m x 4m music room, not even a living room. There are some tricks to "tame" the beast, by putting carpets below, and some soundproofing. I never regret buying a 7 ft piano, the sound & touch is just heavenly smile
Does the room open into other rooms or is it fully enclosed except for the door? How high is the ceiling?

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I play once a week in a music school studio which must be 20x20 with a 8.5ft ceiling on a C7 (an older hand made version, 2.23m) and it is just too loud, even though it has been voiced and tamed. I noticed my ears ringing after one hour with the lid closed. I measured the sound pressure which peaks at more than 100db at FFF.
I now play with special earplugs!
It's a shame because the sound is simply amazing. Maybe the studio could be improved to reduce the sound (more curtains, rugs, etc...) but it's not my place so...


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Originally Posted by fntms
I play once a week in a music school studio which must be 20x20 with a 8.5ft ceiling on a C7 (an older hand made version, 2.23m) and it is just too loud, even though it has been voiced and tamed. I noticed my ears ringing after one hour with the lid closed. I measured the sound pressure which peaks at more than 100db at FFF...


So, don't play that loud. You should be able to control your muscles to match the dynamic range of your music to the room. The hard part is pppp, where the condition of the knuckles and the regulation of the letoff are critical.



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I have my 7 foot Mason-Hamlin in our smallest bedroom and usually play it with the door closed. In some conservatories, they have similar pianos in smaller practice rooms. It depends on how you play it, I think. I have no problems with my piano overpowering the room (which is carpeted.)

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Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by fntms
I play once a week in a music school studio which must be 20x20 with a 8.5ft ceiling on a C7 (an older hand made version, 2.23m) and it is just too loud, even though it has been voiced and tamed. I noticed my ears ringing after one hour with the lid closed. I measured the sound pressure which peaks at more than 100db at FFF...


So, don't play that loud. You should be able to control your muscles to match the dynamic range of your music to the room.
I not sure that's possible or a good idea.

There's a limit to how slowly one can depress a key and get any sound. If that limit under normal circumstances is when playing ppp, but because of room acoustics or the piano one has to play with a ppp touch to get a p dynamic, what could one do to get a pp or ppp dynamic? Also, using a touch much lighter than what would normally be used to achieve various dynamic levels makes performing under more normal conditions problematic.

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I went through this a couple of years ago. With a piano of this quality you will never look back if the chance to purchase does come through and there are no hidden issues with the piano itself (you will need a first rate technician, especially for voicing at your home). I have two actions voiced differently thereby obtaining variety. I did not even need to adjust the room at all acoustically and went from a 7ft to a full concert grand. The tonal subtlety you will enjoy will convince you that the move was right.


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I want to weigh in on this thread again. If you have a large grand, these are your friend:

http://www.thefoamfactory.com/acousticfoam/bassbroad.html


I don't regret having this piano in the house for a second. If I had a studio apartment, it would still come with me. <3

My lesson from trying to treat my room and finally getting results is don't let aesthetics or space discourage you from buying the piano of your dreams. There's always a way to make it work, just stick with it.


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No. I currently have a Bösendorfer 225 (7'4") in my living room. It's big, but nothing beats the clarity you can get on a piano that size. And it's not really much louder than a shorter one.

The room has a high ceiling and a hardwood floor, but it's still a small living room in a little 3/2 ranch house. I have a rug placed underneath it (the legs aren't sitting on it so I can remove it) and a string cover to bring the sound down a bit when I practice, but these go away when I record or have a "house concert." There's a wall hanging on the wall above the piano which helps to make it sound better.

Here's a video so you can get an idea of the placement. The room in the video is bigger than it looks because it's a GoPro with a very wide lens:


https://vimeo.com/31710142




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Originally Posted by kalee21
I have two actions voiced differently thereby obtaining variety.


That's interesting. Do you have two complete pianos, or do you pull one action and replace it with the other? If so, how did you get a complete second action, and what did it cost?



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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by fntms
I play once a week in a music school studio which must be 20x20 with a 8.5ft ceiling on a C7 (an older hand made version, 2.23m) and it is just too loud, even though it has been voiced and tamed. I noticed my ears ringing after one hour with the lid closed. I measured the sound pressure which peaks at more than 100db at FFF...


So, don't play that loud. You should be able to control your muscles to match the dynamic range of your music to the room.
I not sure that's possible or a good idea.

There's a limit to how slowly one can depress a key and get any sound. If that limit under normal circumstances is when playing ppp, but because of room acoustics or the piano one has to play with a ppp touch to get a p dynamic, what could one do to get a pp or ppp dynamic? Also, using a touch much lighter than what would normally be used to achieve various dynamic levels makes performing under more normal conditions problematic.


That hasn't been a problem for me, using a concert grand at home.


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Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by kalee21
I have two actions voiced differently thereby obtaining variety.


That's interesting. Do you have two complete pianos, or do you pull one action and replace it with the other? If so, how did you get a complete second action, and what did it cost?



I do not have room for two large pianos so I simply change actions. One has the Steingraeber rolling knuckle option so they are not mechanically identical and of course there are two sets of hammers to voice as you desire. The RFH does this with its D's here in London. Negotiated the price when the piano was new. Can of course be done for any grand at any time. Had a great time setting them up with my technician. Mine were set initially by Steingraeber at the factory and supplied complete with the proper case for storage and safe transportation.


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Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by fntms
I play once a week in a music school studio which must be 20x20 with a 8.5ft ceiling on a C7 (an older hand made version, 2.23m) and it is just too loud, even though it has been voiced and tamed. I noticed my ears ringing after one hour with the lid closed. I measured the sound pressure which peaks at more than 100db at FFF...


So, don't play that loud. You should be able to control your muscles to match the dynamic range of your music to the room.
I not sure that's possible or a good idea.

There's a limit to how slowly one can depress a key and get any sound. If that limit under normal circumstances is when playing ppp, but because of room acoustics or the piano one has to play with a ppp touch to get a p dynamic, what could one do to get a pp or ppp dynamic? Also, using a touch much lighter than what would normally be used to achieve various dynamic levels makes performing under more normal conditions problematic.


That hasn't been a problem for me, using a concert grand at home.
That probably just means your particular piano isn't two loud for your particular room. But I don't think it negates any part of my reasoning.

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