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Originally Posted by kapelli
Originally Posted by Pedro_Henrique
Oh my gosh, this thread is not about the Casio Digital Pianos anymore. Is about high tech applied to Digital Piano design and construction. Ok. How about talking about it on a specific thread about it?


It's about Casio still. It's because Casio did some step forwards here in the new line of pianos. This is not new in the workingstations or some high advanced synths, but in DP's and the way they did it is really interesting.

I'm not sure - I think that line of thinking is awfully thin.

I get the whole thread-drift thing, and all - and I know what some would argue as the impetus behind the discussion - but all the same, really, it has precious little to do with Casio's new Privia models, really.

Yes, yes, yes - those that like the sound of their own voice on the topic will be lecturing on what Casio SHOULD be doing with their Privia models, but there's a whole deal of put-up-or-shut-up that should be going on, really.

I've worked in a reasonably low-level tech field for decades, but I'm not fool enough to think my low-level expertise qualifies me to be an expert into a whole raft of things outside of my domain, not to mention all the business and market dynamics, finance, and raison d'etre for such companies.

The reality is, a big chunk of this debate appears to be a hobby-horse for some - which I've personally got no problem with. That's what forums are for. When it gets applied to anything and everything, though, that's transcended thread-drift and meandered, listing hard to starboard of hubris and arrogance.

People who've made comments about it being in a separate thread, are completely correct, in my opinion - and I think it's a worthy discussion to have, that I'd willingly read. It's misplaced, though, to think it can or should be foisted on any thread that discusses new models of digital pianos. After all - those so vocal are a vanishingly insignificant demographic.

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Originally Posted by Lester Burnham
... those that like the sound of their own voice...
... I'm not fool enough to think my low-level expertise qualifies me to be an expert into a whole raft of things outside of my domain...
.. transcended thread-drift and meandered, listing hard to starboard of hubris and arrogance.

Ouch. If you're trying to bring this thread back to an even keel you're doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by dewster
Any number of issues, though the main ones are likely:
1. Non-RTOS OS struggling to meet minimum QOS timing.
2. Gobs of crap software between the application and the metal.

Yes... and this picks up from what Kbeaumont said, and in fact, what you've also said in the past... that using a general purpose OS (as opposed to a function-optimized RTOS) introduces additional potential performance problems. This could also be an issue with using something like the odroid platform you talked about, which is designed to run android (a non-starter) or linux. Were you thinking that that hardware could run some kind of RTLinux implementation? I don't know enough about that sort of thing...

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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Lester Burnham
... those that like the sound of their own voice...
... I'm not fool enough to think my low-level expertise qualifies me to be an expert into a whole raft of things outside of my domain...
.. transcended thread-drift and meandered, listing hard to starboard of hubris and arrogance.

Ouch. If you're trying to bring this thread back to an even keel you're doing it wrong.

According to you, everybody is doing everything wrong, so I'll take that under advisement.

As I said, it's awfully thin to go with the tenuous notion of thread-creep. It's really got precious little to do with the new Privia models, than simply your own hobby-horse. And as I said, seems a reasonably interesting discussion on it's own two feet, rather than overwhelming an existing thread with a decidedly frequent tangent.

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Breaking away from the CASIO thread HERE.

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Perhaps a moderator can step in and move the tangential discussion into a separate thread?


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
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Tangential??? Are you trying to say you'd like to talk about us touching each other? That's a whole different forum, James! wink

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Were you thinking that that hardware could run some kind of RTLinux implementation? I don't know enough about that sort of thing...

Ideally. Manufacturers might prefer to adapt whatever open, in-house, or commercial RTOS they are already using. I'd be looking really hard at employing the video core logic to operate on the audio data sets.

My main reason for bringing any of this up is to point out that quite inexpensive hardware should be fully capable at this point. Others can quibble about software, OSes, etc. - not that those things don't matter, but they are secondary and can be dealt with given the inclination and will.

Here's a nice touchscreen for $10. Though, like the fancy backlit logo on the Yamaha CP1, I would much prefer manufacturers put whatever they consider "mad" money into larger sample memory, at least until we can get out of these dark ages. It's not just the screen cost, but fancy graphics stuff takes up precious SW development time, and I'd rather have better sound than better graphics. For a DP I think I'd actually prefer no graphics.

If you dumped an Odroid on the desk of a DP EE back in 1985 he would have pooped his pants and told you he could turn lead into gold with the thing. I suppose times have changed.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Perhaps a moderator can step in and move the tangential discussion into a separate thread?

No need, I think I'll leave PW for a while, maybe for good.

Take care y'all.

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The manuals for the CGP-700 and the PX-360 are now online if anyone wants some info about these models:

http://support.casio.com/storage/en/manual/pdf/EN/008/Web_CGP700-ES-1A_EN.pdf

http://support.casio.com/storage/en/manual/pdf/EN/008/Web_PX360-ES-1A_EN.pdf

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Will the manual for the PX-560 appear soon. This is the model that maybe excites the most interest.

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Originally Posted by funkycornwall
Will the manual for the PX-560 appear soon. This is the model that maybe excites the most interest.


I'm hoping. The 560 is shipping a month later than the CGP-700 and PX-360 so maybe in a few weeks? Mike had said they are still tweaking the final OS, so there may be some things they need to hold off putting in the manual until everything is finalized.

One other thing they may do is put out a "Basics" manual first and then later release a more advanced "Tutorial" manual. They did this with my PX-5S and my XW-PD1 so I wouldn't be surprised if they did that with the PX-560 as well.

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Originally Posted by dewster
...I think I'll leave PW for a while, maybe for good.

Take care y'all.


I really don't think you should leave. The man that created - with a great deal of time consuming work - a thread with well over 3.5 million views should definitely stick around!

Steve

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+1 Dewster, stay here, please! smile


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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I was able to get a look at the menus of the PX-360 when I was at the NAMM show earlier this month:

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Maybe someone knows..what are the key differences between the px750 and the px760? I have been wanting the 750 for awhile and now it went on sale (dropped to $699) I think that is a great price for what it delivers. However 760 is only a hundred more $799. I can get my hands on either, Im only interested in practicing piano and an occasional recording for recitals here, so would it be worth it to just get the 760 or would 750 be the better value?


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Originally Posted by debussychopin
Maybe someone knows..what are the key differences between the px750 and the px760? I have been wanting the 750 for awhile and now it went on sale (dropped to $699) I think that is a great price for what it delivers. However 760 is only a hundred more $799. I can get my hands on either, Im only interested in practicing piano and an occasional recording for recitals here, so would it be worth it to just get the 760 or would 750 be the better value?


I want to say the only difference is some new string and EP samples on the 760 and the "Orchestra Play" feature (prerecorded orchestral pieces you play along with using the included sheet music.).

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Back to dewster's statements...

last year "for fun" I took an old mele a100 with a cortex a8, 512MB ram, 8GB sdcard (or was it 16?), installed arch linux and configured up the salamander sample set. I bypassed "jack" and just ran midi direct into the midi server and tested with an alesis controller.

With just doing that basic stuff I think it could handle ~8 note polyphony before breaking up.

A serious problem was the lack of good support for that ARM SOC chip which had severe latency problems among other issues.

Since I played that little game the RPI-2 with 1GB ram and quad core ARM was released for *cheap*. Far better supported platform.

A home user could easily purchase a full raspberry pi2 kit for ~50usd, tack on a small touchscreen for another 15usd and have sufficient hardware to kick ass.

Back to the MELE I test drove. Supposedly a 9usd updated version of that called CHIP is supposed to be released at some point. http://makezine.com/2015/05/07/next-thing-co-releases-worlds-first-9-computer/
If there's actually decent support for this hardware it should be possible to adequately drive a piano synth. Since it has bluetooth and wifi onboard a phone or tablet could be used to configure it

Now where's the software to drive all of this currently?

All companies I've worked with can either be good at hardware or good at software but never good at both, especially with integrated products. For now the DP manuf are strong on the hardware side. Management tends to view the software side with some disdain until they realize their product can't ship without having something (irritating) working, which they underbudgeted in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Scott Hamlin
Originally Posted by debussychopin
Maybe someone knows..what are the key differences between the px750 and the px760? I have been wanting the 750 for awhile and now it went on sale (dropped to $699) I think that is a great price for what it delivers. However 760 is only a hundred more $799. I can get my hands on either, Im only interested in practicing piano and an occasional recording for recitals here, so would it be worth it to just get the 760 or would 750 be the better value?


I want to say the only difference is some new string and EP samples on the 760 and the "Orchestra Play" feature (prerecorded orchestral pieces you play along with using the included sheet music.).

Thanks.


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Originally Posted by bnolsen
Back to dewster's statements...

last year "for fun" I took an old mele a100 with a cortex a8, 512MB ram, 8GB sdcard (or was it 16?), installed arch linux and configured up the salamander sample set.

Cool. But which Salamander sample set did you use? Specifically, was it bigger than what would fit in the 512 mb RAM? i.e. was the piano memory-resident, or were you streaming off the flash in real time? (Just trying to see how close it is to what dewster proposed... and while the whole concept is interesting, it's the "bigger than RAM" part that is the eyebrow-raiser for me.)

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