Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Best upright that's most similar to a grand's action/sound?

Action is a tough one to argue, uprights and grands are just too different to make an overly valid point. Speed of repetition: perhaps Sauter's R double repetition action..

The only Brodmann pianos I know 'made in Germany' - or at least 'partly Germany' - is the AS series. I have only seen their grands not the uprights.

Those pianos made there are being made or "finished off" by Steinberg, a company Parsons in China has acquired major shares of.

One has to realize that any upright 'made in Germany' will be in the at least 15-20 k range, possibly higher.

There's no way to do things cheaper over there and if they are there's a reason...

INMO the "most German piano" in still affordable price range today on market is the newly designed Ritmuller Premium series uprights in sizes 47"-52" These are truly amazing pianos.

Would appreciate to hear from someone who would prefer another piano anywhere same price range if having tried one of them. Serious.

IMHO, terribly biased of course, it is my sincere belief that these pianos have virtually no match on market today.

Even at twice the price...

Apologies to all who disagree - let's hear from them:
remember "similar price range"...ha

Norbert

I played a K8 (52") a few weeks ago and it was really nice. Almost sounded and felt like my RX5 (6'6" grand). Kawai voices their pianos much warmer/mellower than the typical Yamaha so I wouldn't put them in the same category. My guess is they sell for about $11-12K. I think the K6 is the same except it doesn't have the sostenuto pedal and goes for a couple thousand less.

So I played some pianos, and here's what I thought.

I tried the Steinway 1098.

First of all, I did try a few new ones. I really liked them, had a good touch and a nice singing tone in the upper register, was a pleasure to play.

Then I tried some older ones - from the 60's, 70's. I really did not like those and they had nothing in common with the new one. They sounded tinny, and like a cheaper asian piano. Touch was also not so great.

Next, I also tried the Kawaii 52 inch upright - sounded great and touch was good. Was around $10-11k.

I tried the Schimmel 45 inch upright as well - really nice sound, better than the Kawaii, and touch was about the same.

Overall, the new Steinway 1098 was best for me - but the price is twice as much as the other instruments, and it's not twice as good. The Schimmel and Kawaii seemed liked very good value for the money.

Any thoughts on these?

Omikse!

For new pianos, take a look at a Chinese piano - Perzina GP-130A. I liked it enough, I bought one. Detoa action, overstrung with a floating soundboard...big sound, action's fairly light. Check out the video of a 130 on this dealer's page:

http://pianocenter.com/perzina.asp

If you can find a nice used Petrof 135, I think you'll also be pleased. Walter is another nice option.

And if you can fit a 5'4" grand...give Rich a call at Cunningham's. Their Cunningham line is one of the best built Chinese grands I've seen, and represents a really good value if you like a warm sounding piano.

Why is there such a variation in quality on the 1098 over the years? The older 10, 20 year plus 1098 steinways sounded like cheap spinet pianos.

The brand new one sounded great, different world.

Did they change how they are made or does age destroy the touch and sound of these 1098s?

Friends:

Crash Test asks a very good question. Perhaps we should consult the tuner/techs in the other forum.

All I know about that particular Steinway upright is that EVERY tuner/tech of my acquaintance runs screaming from the room at the very mention of them.

Del made a very pithy observation in another thread where the merits or not of the S and or the M were being debated. The simple fact is that more modern designs, radically cheaper, easily surpass them.

Karl Watson
Staten Island, NY

Steinway made some design changes in 2004, according to Piano Buyer, that make them easier to tune, and to stay in tune. My tech says they are built like tanks. She's serviced 60 year old 1098s and say they are still like new. Like any piano, they need maintenance. Last year I spent an hour on one that hadn't been serviced in decades, if ever. It was a train wreck.

Look at the soundboard and compare the spacing of the rings to other uprights. The 1098 is built with very fine materials.

I think they're nice pianos, nice action and nice tone. I also believe Steinway, with their annual 5% increase in price is starting to price them out of reach of their natural customer base.

Crashtest--read your PMs.

I've tried a few pianos, and here is what I thought. Does this pretty much equal the general consensus?

New pianos:

Steinway 1098 - As a brand new piano, I thought the touch was decent, but the sound was very good and carried well. My favorite so far, but outside my budget when new.

Schimmel 45": Touch was OK, sound was not as good as Steinways, but still good for half the price almost.

Kawai k8: Touch was pretty good - sound was only OK.

Charles Walter: Touch was only OK, and the sound not the best - a bit brittle. I played 3-4 new ones, and the only one I liked was an older version. I know these get hyped up a lot, but they are now almost $10k or more, and I don't think they are really that much better than the Kawai or Japanese uprights. Maybe if they were 6-7k.

Baldwin 6000 52 inch upright: Was Surprised by this one, very nice sound projection, decent touch. The upper register was only OK, but the piano had a clear and strong sound.

Seiler 52 inch: Was OK in sound and touch, did not think it was better than the Schimmel, and a little pricey.

Used:
Steinway 1098: Every single older Steinway upright I've played has been disappointing, not s great touch and sounds like a spinet. The new one was great, though. Maybe I've been playing some poorly maintained older models, and usually they are from the 60's and 70's. Maybe one from the late 90's may be better - as I really did like the new one.


I really want to try the Bechstein Academy series - they seem priced fairly nicely and I've heard a lot of good things about them.

Have you tried the Boston uprights?

I did try Boston too. Had a really nice touch, and sound was ok, but not enough resonance. Used I may consider one, but as for new, they are over 10k so at that point I'd rather get a Schimmel or something like that.

If you can find them, you should try a W. Hoffmann Tradition. They're really nice for the price. Hard to find, though. No dealers in Los Angeles, for example.

The German made Seiler uprights are really something, as well. Very expensive.

I tried another set of pianos today.

A newer 2002 Steinway 1098. I actually really liked this one - the best touch so far on an upright I've played, and the sound was very good. Finally a Steinway 1098 that sounds close to a new one, this is currently at the top of my list.

I did also try a few Bechstein Academy uprights - the B120 (Or A2 as it was called and A112). The A2/B120 was great - excellent touch and beautiful sound, it's better than the Steinway 1098 that I played, but new it's more expensive than the used Steinway. (But cheaper than a new Steinway)

I also tried a Hoffman, and Bluthner. Hoffman was so-so for me, and the Bluthner was excellent but outside of my price range.

So at the top of my list is the Steinway 1098 I played and the Bechstein B120. Both really good. I'd take the Bechstein in a heartbeat but the Steinway is priced significantly lower since it's used. I still have some more playing to do.

I guess you're committed to the upright, but given how concerned you are about touch and sound--just thought I'd raise the question of whether you really don't have space for a grand. (My husband thought I was crazy when I first said we could fit one in our 15-foot-wide rowhouse.)

Nope... not by a long shot.

Which is why you should pay attention to your own consensus. You are buying a piano for yourself, not us.

It sounds like you're doing OK so far.

I see that you own a Charles Walter, which explains your opinion. I played a used one that I really liked, and was priced about $5500. Nice piano, I was excited about them when I thought they were $6-7k new. But prices seem to have gone up.

But the new ones are $10k or slightly more, and for that much I am not impressed with them as much. There are other pianos you can get which sound and play better in that price range, for a little more you can get a Schimmel or something similar.

A little more? Which Schimmel are you comparing to?

Larry Fine SMP

These are all gloss ebony 45" to 46" models
Schimmel K122 $30,180
Schimmel C116 19,190
Schimmel T115 $15,980
Schimmel W114 $12,780

Charles Walter 1500 $11,676 with a Renner action.

You should try a Petrof. I have a model 131 that I've had since 2007. Very satisfied with the tone and the action. A used one is in your range, including the 125.

I used to think that too....