2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
68 members (brennbaer, BlaisGuitars, anotherscott, brdwyguy, c++, 8ude, Buzz209, 13 invisible), 1,010 guests, and 508 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
#2210905 01/08/14 01:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 40
B
BEN120N Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 40
I regularly tune a Steinway D grand (Hamburg 20 years old) in a city recital hall.
The pitch is maintained between 440 and 441 hertz.
An artist has requested the pitch to be raised to 443 for their performance.
In reply I have stated that the piano should not be raised above 442, and that an additional tuning before the performance and a further one to lower the pitch would be required.
Any thoughts?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
BEN120N #2210912 01/08/14 01:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,693
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,693
You should have added that you will not guarantee stability, and the extra cost will be paid in advance by the artist, who will also be responsible for any damage that might result.


Semipro Tech
BEN120N #2210978 01/08/14 04:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
R
rXd Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
The last Pitch change I was involved with was a similar distance. There was two double tunings up and two double tunings down plus the tunings before each time the piano is played, be it rehearsal or concert. That was arranged by an extremely experienced tuning department manager for a week of concerts by a major European orchestra.
It's like being a performer and having an agent. Double tunings are charged double rates. No discount.

Of course, onstage time has to be found for this unless the venue has a large enough piano storage room. That is also an issue and may incur a fee.

Has the management been consulted?

Who pays for this?

Some pianists want special attention and don't realise that the tuners time is valuable and must be paid for. They can always ask for "tune and attend" where the tuner is paid the standard tuning fee per hour.

Just say "certainly- It will cost...(at very least 5 full tuning fees)..". And note their reaction to see if they are serious or whether it's just a pretentious whim.

Same for a different temperament.


Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


BEN120N #2210988 01/08/14 04:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 151
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 151
We had a request for 444... The answer was short.


Piano Technician
BEN120N #2211043 01/08/14 06:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 337
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 337
I had to tune a grand for the TV recording, to be mated with an accordeon whose pitch was at 445. I had to tune it twice, early in the morning, so that they can do the recording. They did not say that they would want it to be tuned back to 440. But they also did not know that some other artists from the other department, who shared that room would need it to be tuned at 440 in the evening for some performance they have had with the second grand in that room, which was not tuned that day at all, so it was sitting somewhere around 440, like usual. So, I was called again in the afternoon to lower the pitch of the first grand to 440. It was not a very nice day for me.


Bojan Babic
piano technician and tuner
Sid, Vojvodina, Serbia
_____________________________
bojanbabic@yahoo.com
www.klaviri.blogspot.com
BEN120N #2211200 01/09/14 12:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,974
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,974
Tuning is good work - up or down or sideways... as long as they pay. It is how we make our living.

If a piano needs to be tuned up for an exceptional situation, it needs to be tuned down again to the standard pitch afterward. Not everyone in a theater or music venue may be fully aware of this. It is part of our responsibility to make sure the person who calls us with special tuning requests is fully aware of all the work (and costs and scheduling) that is involved.


JG
BEN120N #2211205 01/09/14 12:29 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 376
G
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 376
In my years of experience, usually, it's not worth the trouble dealing with the customer who wants a "specialty" tuning.(not even at a triple charge!). I keep getting calls from an elderly lady who wants me to to her piano to her "satisfaction". She has had numerous tuners attempt to tune the piano so it will sound "old fashion". This is someone who is not worth my time


Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...
BEN120N #2211213 01/09/14 12:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,920
E
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,920
Several times I would call the artist's management when the rider that specified A-442 was brought to me. I would explain the extra work to do that. They almost always declined and said 440 would be fine.

One time I mentioned the rider to the pianist and he said "is that thing still in the contract?"


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,534
D
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,534
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
Several times I would call the artist's management when the rider that specified A-442 was brought to me. I would explain the extra work to do that. They almost always declined and said 440 would be fine.

One time I mentioned the rider to the pianist and he said "is that thing still in the contract?"

My experience as well. When the artist (or the booking agent) found out that there would be an additional charge for the extra work involved they almost always agreed that A=440 was really what they had wanted all the time.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
BEN120N #2211240 01/09/14 02:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,534
D
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,534
Some years back I knew a piano tuner who had done quite a lot of tuning for recording studios in NYC. Turns out he knew someone who worked at a company that made tuning forks. He asked for, and got, a set of five tuning forks marked A-440; A-441; A-442; etc. Since he was legally blind whenever he had a request to tune the piano to, say, A-442 he would ask the musician (or whoever was making the request) to pick out the right fork. He would than tune the piano to that pitch. Which was, of course, A-440. As were they all.

He told me he never had a complaint about the pitch not being "right."

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
BEN120N #2211250 01/09/14 03:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
R
rXd Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
Only a few days ago, there was an accompanist who wanted to practice during the allotted tuning slot. His argument was that it sounded fine to him. Mine was that we decide what sounds fine and pointed him to a dressing room with a piano.

It is not unusual, in a busy room to bring in a concert hire piano that is already at the requested pitch. This can cost almost twice as much as a course of tunings but is always preferable to jacking around the pitch of the house pianos

I like the story of the range of tuning forks, Dell.

Another favourite is the tango band with their bandoneon at 442. I find that the combination of the usual pitch float and the natural treble stretch will take care of any pitch discrepancy at the pitch where it is noticed.

In festivals with many concerts in succession,unusual pitch requests simply cannot be accommodated.

On movie sessions, there is sometimes an old Mustel celeste at 439 right next the piano and a range of tuned percussion at the other side of the orchestra, gathered from many sources and sometimes above 444. What to do? Tune as normal. It rarely becomes an issue. I was watching a movie and heard some wildly out of tune tuned percussion. The out of tuneness added to the atmosphere in the soundtrack. It may not have been nearly as effective if it had been in tune. It is standard on a pipe organ for the celesta stop to be set at five or six Hz.difference.


Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


Del #2211432 01/09/14 12:32 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
Originally Posted by Del
Some years back I knew a piano tuner who had done quite a lot of tuning for recording studios in NYC. Turns out he knew someone who worked at a company that made tuning forks. He asked for, and got, a set of five tuning forks marked A-440; A-441; A-442; etc. Since he was legally blind whenever he had a request to tune the piano to, say, A-442 he would ask the musician (or whoever was making the request) to pick out the right fork. He would than tune the piano to that pitch. Which was, of course, A-440. As were they all.

He told me he never had a complaint about the pitch not being "right."

ddf


That is genious!


PTG Associate
AIO Regular Member
ASCAP
Pipe Organ Builder
Chief Instrument Technician, Director, Chancel Arts
Church Music Professional
AA Music Arts 2001, BM Organ, Choral 2005


Baldwin F 1960 (146256)
Zuckermann Flemish Single
rXd #2211436 01/09/14 12:40 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
S
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
Originally Posted by rxd
It is standard on a pipe organ for the celesta stop to be set at five or six Hz.difference.


This entirely depends on the vintage of the organ and who it was built by.


PTG Associate
AIO Regular Member
ASCAP
Pipe Organ Builder
Chief Instrument Technician, Director, Chancel Arts
Church Music Professional
AA Music Arts 2001, BM Organ, Choral 2005


Baldwin F 1960 (146256)
Zuckermann Flemish Single
BEN120N #2211537 01/09/14 03:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 40
B
BEN120N Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 40
A big thankyou for all your replies.

It seems we are all singing from the same hymn sheet!

Ben Nolan

BEN120N #2215764 01/16/14 04:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 40
B
BEN120N Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 40
Common sense has prevailed! I have had an email from the concert venue to say that A=440hz is fine for the concert.

Thanks for your help,

Ben Nolan

BEN120N #2215776 01/16/14 04:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,561
O
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,561
Goodonya, Ben!



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Just Completed My 42 Week Pandemic Teaching Project
by tonystride - 06/22/21 03:41 PM
Kawai NV5 Users Group
by JBishop - 06/22/21 03:28 PM
Vax77 Folding Piano Review 2021
by AlphaTerminus - 06/22/21 01:12 PM
Recording an upright using ORTF?
by Beemer - 06/22/21 11:46 AM
Caution with cheap SSDs
by newer player - 06/22/21 11:08 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,655
Posts3,106,285
Members101,884
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5