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Joined: Jul 2007
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Hi everyone,

Long time since I posted.
I still love my Yamaha Grand Piano and it is played on a daily basis.
I would love to say that I still love my Casio Privia PX320, it is still as solid as day 1, but for family issues reason, it is not with me anymore.

So I am looking for a replacement - budget is $1000 max - and if it can be even funnier than the PX320, the better. I am mainly a classical pianist but I would like to extend my creativity to some Dance/Trance music (I like all kinds of music except rap and hip hop).

I naturally checked the Casio Privia line, and there is this amazing PX-5S. It looks great, feels great (I went out to try it), but it seems a little bit complex to use.
Another option I am looking at (but I did not try yet) is the Korg Kross.

I like them both on the paper: they can work on batteries, are very light, 88 graded weighted piano keys (the Casio seems better on this side). They both look good to me. I do not need speakers. They both can record live performances.

PX-5S pros: it is a synth as well(! I miss my Yamaha SY22 !), it is more compact so easier to travel with, better keys (texture, action, tri-sensor), some slides and knobs to change the sounds in real time
Kross pros: better screen, easier to use, drums editor and sequencer

PX-5S cons: smaller screen, no sequencer (phrase sequencer though) or drums editor, piano samples are good but not sure about the rest of the voices (I rarely used the PX-320 voices other than the Piano patches)
Kross cons: not a synth (so what you get ootb is what you get), bigger (I have a sedan), the Piano settings do not seem to be as nice as the PX-5S but the other voices are said to be good.

I have a nice little very slim and light laptop that I can connect to the DP. Any open source software recommendation would be welcome as well.

Did I overlook anything? Is there another option I should look at for $1000?

Please let me know your thoughts.
Vincent

Last edited by Vincent L.; 11/07/13 12:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by Vincent L.
Kross cons: not a synth (so what you get ootb is what you get),

The Kross has tons of editable synth functionality... all the filters, envelopes, etc. are there. Download the Kross Parameter Guide from the Korg web site, to get a look. You can also download the editor and get a sense of how deep you can get into the programming of the sounds there too.

Originally Posted by Vincent L.
the Piano settings do not seem to be as nice as the PX-5S but the other voices are said to be good.

I would agree with those who say that the non-AP instrument sounds of the Kross are generally better. As for the AP, it might be interesting to note that on the main piano patch of the Kross, I exceeded polyphony on the 21st note of a passage. I was not able to coax an audibly dropped note out of the PX5S.


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They are both ugly , haha. Must be some kind of anti-beauty competition in that range going on smile S

Sorry , couldn't help. Touched a Kross yesterday. From a piano perspective I'd go for the Casio for sure...Since you're obviously going to connect a laptop; do you need the extra features like sequencer of the Kross ?! You could do that with you computer. Ticks of some boxes in favor of the Casio setup (with laptop). Best is try them both; then decide.

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Originally Posted by Vincent L.


I naturally checked the Casio Privia line, and there is this amazing PX-5S. It looks great, feels great (I went out to try it), but it seems a little bit complex to use.



Hi Vincent - the PX-5S does require a little time investment to learn all its features, but it's time well spent as this board is very flexible.

I have a Facebook Group set-up just for the PX-5S - ask questions, get help, share sounds, etc. You are more than welcome to join to see what it's all about..there are several non-owners in the group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Casio.Px5s/

There is also http://CasioMusicForums.com a more "formal" message board AND an area full of free PX-5S downloads.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is don't be put off by the depth of the PX-5S.. you have plenty of help learning it. smile

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So you are both suggesting that the PX-5S is a better choice for me as I am a pianist. I do not understand how you managed to reach the limits of the Korg's polyphony that quickly - it is a concern. I will have to seriously try it.

Beauty is suggestive - let's say that I can easily live with the way they look.

Another couple of pros for the Kross: it comes with a free soft case with wheels if purchased new this month (it will be) and it supports half damping (with the purchase of a $60 Korg piano like pedal).

I have installed and checked the editors and docs of both DPs now, and the PX has way more synth features, which makes it much more complex to configure, but "will I need these features?" is the question that I need to find the answer to. I am not gigging. I like to compose. But I want to be able to sound good, so the voices and how they can be tweaked matters.

There are opensource sequencers out there running on Windows: one is LMMS

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Thanks for the help group - that really matters. I have sent a request to join on Facebook. I do not know if you had time to accept my request yet.

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Originally Posted by Vincent L.
Thanks for the help group - that really matters. I have sent a request to join on Facebook. I do not know if you had time to accept my request yet.


It looks like I added you on Wednesday! smile

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I too have been looking at the Korg Kross. Finally found an 88 key to play. I thought the piano sounds were OK but not great. The EP's are nice as are some of the string and brass sounds. Synth patches are similar to the Krome and older Korg boards. You can edit the sounds on the Kross and the Combi patches. There aren't any knobs to control. All the editing is menu driven. The Kross 88 uses Korg's Natural Hammer action. I noticed the keys have a shallow throw. I'm not completely sold on the Natural Hammer action and found my hands started to hurt after playing it awhile. Haven't played a PX-5S yet. Haven't run into one to play. Based on playing the PX-350 though, Casio has a better sounding AP and the action is superb especially at the price point. The PX-5S is in another league compared with the PX-350. The sounds are higher quality and can be tweaked and customized as desired.

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I just bought a PX5S a few weeks ago. My only hesitation was the worry that I couldn't figure it out. An though I am a long way from saying I am comfortable knowing my way around I can tell you it is really fun to play! You get amazing sounds out of the box. You can tweak them with knobs/sliders If you want to or just play with one of the stage settings and enjoy.

The keys feel great and I have been very impressed by this keyboard. I have no regrets whatsoever getting it. You get the great piano feel an the synth capabilities all in one. One word to describe: FUN!

And you can enjoy the board from the get go and learn all its amazin features over time.

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I have checked what the other manufacturers have to offer ... Yamaha has a MOX8 that looks nice, but it is 50% more expensive, 50% heavier ...
Casio is still #1 on my list. I am looking at the offers and KraftMusic has interesting bundles. Did anyone deal with them before? How did it go?

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Originally Posted by Vincent L.
I have checked what the other manufacturers have to offer ... Yamaha has a MOX8 that looks nice, but it is 50% more expensive, 50% heavier ...

Well yes, if you go over your "$1000 max," more options open up to you!

Overall, I would say the Yamaha non-piano instrument sounds are better than the Kross, which are better than the PX-5S. But PX-5S has the best action of the three. If you get the MOXF (the newest version of the MOX), you can, at some point, buy an optional 512mb or 1024mb flash card, and load entirely different piano samples into it (as well as other things).

Also, once you get to that price range, you open up the possibility of getting two boards. You could get a PX-5S or possibly PX-350 for the 88, and supplement it with a Krome 61 or an MX49, as a way to possibly get both the action you want and the sounds you want. A MIDI cable lets you play the second boards' sounds from your first board.

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I have the PX-5S and like it very much. Not even sure that Yamaha piano (grand) is better, and I had a P85 before. Casio just has a different sound.


Me on YouTube

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, NI Giant, Sampletekk White Grand, Choc. Audio Steinbach, and a few more. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
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What I meant by mentioning the MOX8 is that the next option for what I am looking for was 50% more expensive and heavier and it did not bring much more than the PX-5S (certainly not 50% more). So it is not an option.
My budget is still $1000 (which is not bad for playing around for fun in my humble opinion) so only the Kross and PX-5S are on my list at this point.

It is my mistake to have not mentioned why I purchased the PX-320 initially: it is to have a piano to practice on at night and travel with (to friends, during the weekends and vacation).
I understand what you suggest perfectly smile I want to keep things as simple as possible and light as well when I travel: 1 device + my laptop. I just need that device to be good enough to keep me and the kids entertained for some time, and again, the PX-5S seems to fit the bill extremely well within budget and certainly better/more than anything else currently on the market.
I will check out the Kross this afternoon ...
Just out of curiosity: the PX-5S is not considered to be a workstation like the Kross, MOX8 or even the MM8 and only appears as a Digital Piano. What does it miss to be in this category?

I appreciate all your inputs. Very nice of you all to share your expertise. I have been out of the market for a DP/Synth for quite long and this forum (you guys!) is of outstanding help & value.

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Originally Posted by Vincent L.
I have checked what the other manufacturers have to offer ... Yamaha has a MOX8 that looks nice, but it is 50% more expensive, 50% heavier ...
Casio is still #1 on my list. I am looking at the offers and Kraft Music has interesting bundles. Did anyone deal with them before? How did it go?


I purchased my PX-5S from Kraft. No issues.. question promptly answered. Shipment arrived on-time and in perfect condition. Would not hesitate buying from them again.

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Originally Posted by Vincent L.
What I meant by mentioning the MOX8 is that the next option for what I am looking for was 50% more expensive and heavier and it did not bring much more than the PX-5S (certainly not 50% more).

Hard to say whether it's "50% more" until you hear them. But I understand you want to stay in budget regardless.

Originally Posted by Vincent L.
I want to keep things as simple as possible and light as well when I travel: 1 device + my laptop.

The laptop will let you add whatever sounds you may find lacking on the PX-5S. Though also, if you want to keep the computer out of it, down the road, adding a Yamaha MX49 (or maybe even Korg Microstation) will give you a lot of the "other" things you want at very little increase in total travel weight. There are also interesting things you can add via iPad.

Originally Posted by Vincent L.
Just out of curiosity: the PX-5S is not considered to be a workstation like the Kross, MOX8 or even the MM8 and only appears as a Digital Piano. What does it miss to be in this category?

a full sequencer (i.e. a multi-track MIDI recorder that allows you to build, edit, save, and replay your own compositions/arrangements). Though the MM8 doesn't really qualify either, its recording functionality is pretty minimal, if I recall.

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So I try the Kross and the MOX8 ....

I like the Kross very much, even the action, but it is big and I am not crazy about the piano patches and it is large.
The Yamaha is bigger than the PX-5S (Deeper) and heavier. I am not crazy about its action, but it sounds very good and is $500 more expensive.

The PX-5S has it all in my mind. I will try it again, but it is outstanding at its price point and I am fairly sold to it at this point. If I could find some good software for my Android tablet to work with it, ... otherwise the laptop will do.
If Casio adds a sampler and some good sequencing features for the drums and
song composition and keep it simple to use in their coming model ... they will put in trouble the competition even more.

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. It is extremely valuable.

Sincerely,
Vincent

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Originally Posted by Vincent L.

If Casio adds a sampler and some good sequencing features for the drums and
song composition and keep it simple to use in their coming model ... they will put in trouble the competition even more.



There is a ongoing "wish list" over at http://CasioMusicForums.com . It seems some kind of combo of the XW-P1/GW syths, the WK-7500 workstation and PX-5S Stage Piano would be most welcome. smile

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Just FYI - as you all have been kind enough to answer my questions - I ended up with a XW-P1 as it fitted the best my new lower budget limit, space, and the sound & features are more than great for the price. It is connected to my PC right now. I am learning how to use it. It will take some time ... :-) and it is a great complement to my acoustic piano.
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Originally Posted by anotherscott

The laptop will let you add whatever sounds you may find lacking on the PX-5S.


I have a very basic question. If the laptop can add whatever sounds are lacking on a stage piano, then does that mean that I should not be particularly concerned about the electric piano sounds that are already installed on any given digital piano?

I'm a tech-newbie - my last electric piano was a Rhodes I had for a few decades - so don't know how complicated or impractical it is to rely on hooking up a digital piano to a laptop. But if it's not a complicated process and I am comfortable with a laptop connection, that simplifies the purchasing process a lot, and allows me to focus almost exclusively on touch and feel.

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Wynton - this is off topic so the following is to respond to your question only about using a computer as a tone generator as much as I can as I am not a specialist in this area. I am not talking about using a PC as a sequencer to play back events and use the tones generator of the synth or DP connected to your computer (which is my config).

You can use your computer to be the synthesizer or digital piano sound processor and generator.
One setup could be as following:
A. a keyboard used as a midi controller (you will push keys and buttons, turn wheels and the controller will generate the midi events)
B. a computer with software to react to midi events received through its midi interface (now you can use USB on modern equipment)
C. a good set of speakers/monitors to produce the "physical" sound.

A. Midi Controller: you can be very cheap or spend a lot on it. It all depends of the type of action and controls you want your controller to have. Most modern Digital pianos and keyboards have some midi controller capacity ... There are dedicated/specialized midi controllers on the market.

B. If you are going to use a computer to be the tones generator, depending on the complexity of the tones you want to play, a simple laptop could do it but if you will play multiple complex tones and high definition piano samples is likely that you want the best CPU, Memory, SSD and sound card to get something that plays real time (with little to no perceptible delay). The computer receives the midi events and calculates the waves to be sent to the speakers through the sound card (embedded or dedicated to help the CPU).
The software running on the computer is also very important, can be free or expensive. There are threads on this topic. Search for virtual instruments topics.

C. The speakers and monitors ... long topic smile but let's say that the computer speakers will not cut it for long and you will probably upgrade to monitors.


I hope this help.
Vincent


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