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#2141055 08/30/13 12:18 AM
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I've sort of gotten fixated on the idea of getting a Baldwin M. All the commentary I read on here seems to suggest it's a pretty good piano. But I'm wondering if I'm too hung up on that model now, and if I should still be considering others.

For example, in the $3 to 4 thousand range, I see some others that intrigue me a bit like these:

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/msg/4028625759.html

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/msg/3987657163.html

The Yamaha looks like it was built in the late 60's. There's no model number, and the seller hasn't responded to email.

The Kohler and Campbell seller hasn't responded either, but there's a phone number and he's a dealer, so perhaps I'll call tomorrow.

Any thoughts on Kohler and Campbell and/or Yamaha vs. the Baldwin in that price range? Should I try not to get hung up on the specific Baldwin model?

Thanks! :-)



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I'd suggest you continue to explore all your options. However I think a Baldwin M has more potential than either of the pianos you listed.


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Do you have space for a Baldwin R? I see those coming up too. If you really want that sound, the R may also be an option.

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My bias as a Baldwin owner is obvious, but I agree with musicpassion.


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I'm afraid $3-4K won't buy a whole lot of grand, no matter what name is on the fallboard.


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Quote
I'm afraid $3-4K won't buy a whole lot of grand, no matter what name is on the fallboard.


This is a totally false statement. I have a 1949 Baldwin M and a 1930 Baldwin C that I payed less than this for. With minimal work they have turned out to be some of the best pianos I have ever had....in fact, spectacular would be a better adjective. I would advise the OP to PM me and I will be happy to give him my take on his question.


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Originally Posted by Jolly
I'm afraid $3-4K won't buy a whole lot of grand, no matter what name is on the fallboard.


That seems to be the case where I live as well.


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If you are looking for a small grand, the Baldwin M is one of the very best of its size category. That is, a 'real' Baldwin that was built prior to the unfortunate collapse during the tenure of the "Soap Lady."

In your price range, it would probably be of an age when Baldwin was a very fine piano. In my opinion, the two pianos you linked would not be in the same category/class of a good Baldwin.

It is possible to find a well kept and serviced 'M' in your price range, but it would depend on the size of the market you are shopping and waiting to find a suitable instrument.


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Originally Posted by CC2 and Chopin lover
Quote
I'm afraid $3-4K won't buy a whole lot of grand, no matter what name is on the fallboard.


This is a totally false statement. I have a 1949 Baldwin M and a 1930 Baldwin C that I payed less than this for. With minimal work they have turned out to be some of the best pianos I have ever had....in fact, spectacular would be a better adjective. I would advise the OP to PM me and I will be happy to give him my take on his question.


Good for you.

Down here, that kind of money buys furniture.

Now bump it up 3 or 4 thousand, and you suddenly can find some decent stuff.

And BTW, never forget that most folks cannot move, work on or tune a grand for free.


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Originally Posted by CC2 and Chopin lover
Quote
I'm afraid $3-4K won't buy a whole lot of grand, no matter what name is on the fallboard.


This is a totally false statement. I have a 1949 Baldwin M and a 1930 Baldwin C that I payed less than this for. With minimal work they have turned out to be some of the best pianos I have ever had....in fact, spectacular would be a better adjective. I would advise the OP to PM me and I will be happy to give him my take on his question.


Your anecdotal experience is not representative of the market.

$3000-$4000 won't generally buy much in grands.


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Originally Posted by Steve Cohen
$3000-$4000 won't generally buy much in grands.

I guess it depends on what your definition of "much" is... smile

However, it has been my experience, both as a real shopper (and a pseudo shopper smile ) that anything decent in a used grand starts at about $3K. But, there are exceptions to this.

Yamaha, Kawai, and other better known brands can command a higher price. However, some lesser known brands that are still good musical instruments can go for less; much less, in some instances.

Of course, I'm certainly no authority on used piano or prices.

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I've come across decent small grands from private parties in the 3-4K range. I found a 60s Baldwin M for a friend which was very well maintained for a round 4k. Admittedly it takes a bit of searching and patience but it can be done. I should add, in this price range it is especially important to have a tech do an evaluation of any piano before the purchase.

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We seem to have quite a few "know it alls" here, so here are a few examples of pianos, currently for sale, that, for about $500.00, I can make quite impressive (I know because I've already gone to inspect and play the first two):

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/msg/4020985217.html

http://cnj.craigslist.org/msg/3982147422.html

Oh, and here's one from your neck of the woods Jolly, just to show I know what I am talking about:

http://bham.craigslist.org/msg/3991843558.html

Keep in mind, these are just the starting prices on all these pianos. What they sell for is almost always a lot less. I look forward to your responses.


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I think you may be misunderstanding the problem.

Of course, at any given time acceptable grands in the price range given can be found in a few markets in the US.

Purchasing a piano from a remote selling is fraught with problems and costs.

My position is that a shopper will find it challenging to find such a piano in their local market. The fact that they exist elsewhere is not particularly pertinent.

In this case the desired piano is a Baldwin M. What are the odds that there will be one in decent condition and in the price range for sale in the OPs market?


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I'm not misunderstanding the problem at all. Jolly claimed that for under $3000.00, in his neck of the woods, you can only find junk. Within less than five minutes I found him a Baldwin M from an ideal time in their manufacture for $2000.00. I could probably get this piano for $1000.00, when all is said and done. I've done this many, many times. You just have to know where, when and how to go about it. Of course, with you owning a brick and mortar music store that sells pianos, I can certainly understand where you would have a different opinion, however, that is not what I was responding to. Jolly made a statement that I knew was patently false, and you came along and further attempted to diminish my point of view by calling it "anecdotal evidence". So, I posted further to show that what I was saying was not anecdotal at all. I provided several concrete examples from different areas of the country. If the original poster would like, he/she can PM me their location and I will be happy to send them examples of Baldwins they can easily go check out with a technician.


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How is providing another example not anecdotal?

Is it your position that Baldwin Ms in decent condition under $4000 can be found in most markets?


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CC2 - I agree with you 100%

The OP used CL links from DC and Philly. It would seem that they are in, or near, major metropolitan areas.

How 'bout this?

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/msg/4021303927.html


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Originally Posted by CC2 and Chopin lover
We seem to have quite a few "know it alls" here, so here are a few examples of pianos, currently for sale, that, for about $500.00, I can make quite impressive (I know because I've already gone to inspect and play the first two):

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/msg/4020985217.html

http://cnj.craigslist.org/msg/3982147422.html

Oh, and here's one from your neck of the woods Jolly, just to show I know what I am talking about:

http://bham.craigslist.org/msg/3991843558.html

Keep in mind, these are just the starting prices on all these pianos. What they sell for is almost always a lot less. I look forward to your responses.


As long as my neck of the woods includes an over 7-hour drive (one-way), you may be right.


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Originally Posted by CC2 and Chopin lover
I'm not misunderstanding the problem at all. Jolly claimed that for under $3000.00, in his neck of the woods, you can only find junk. Within less than five minutes I found him a Baldwin M from an ideal time in their manufacture for $2000.00. I could probably get this piano for $1000.00, when all is said and done. I've done this many, many times. You just have to know where, when and how to go about it. Of course, with you owning a brick and mortar music store that sells pianos, I can certainly understand where you would have a different opinion, however, that is not what I was responding to. Jolly made a statement that I knew was patently false, and you came along and further attempted to diminish my point of view by calling it "anecdotal evidence". So, I posted further to show that what I was saying was not anecdotal at all. I provided several concrete examples from different areas of the country. If the original poster would like, he/she can PM me their location and I will be happy to send them examples of Baldwins they can easily go check out with a technician.


Are you trying to tell me you know my local piano market conditions better than I do?

Ok, brother...New Orleans is a 200 mile drive for me. Houston is about 250. I ain't driving 5 hours one-way on a wild goose chase.

Baton Rouge will be the closest "larger" market.

I want you to find me a decent Baldwin M or R - by decent, I mean no work needed, fully acceptable to a professional musician - and set it in my living room for $3-4 thousand dollars. And if I go look at that piano, and I will, if it is not as represented, I'm sending you a bill for my normal expenses...That would be $40/hr traveling time and $75/hour when I walk through the door.

I look forward to your reply.


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Jolly.

Give him some slack. Accept that the piano can need a pitch-raise and a little regulation to be satisfactory to an intermediate player.


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