|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
42 members (ChickenBrother, Adam Reynolds, Cinnamonbear, Dfrankjazz, APianistHasNoName, Chris B, 1957, AudreyJean, EPW, bobrunyan, 6 invisible),
2,070
guests, and
334
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
|
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439 |
Though Liberace's pianos were encased in Bling, they were very good instruments. He was a Baldwin artist and he kept his pianos in top condition. I played one at the museum and it was an exceptional piano.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177 |
Flaunting his wealth, his execrable costumes and accessories, and his grotesquely effeminate behavior (while absolutely, unconditionally closeted) were the height of bad taste. To me, all of that overshadowed any thought of whether he was a good, or not good, pianist. That has absolutely nothing to do with OP's question.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 373
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 373 |
If nothing else, you have to admire the guy for his foundation. And his eyeliner and mascara are well done, too! Ouch! While you guys were busy admiring his foundation, mascara, and eyeliner, I was busy enjoying his music,
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan Debussy--various pieces Grieg--various pieces
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 589
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 589 |
Watching Liberace on television as a young child was a big factor in my lifetime love-affair with the piano. I wanted to be Liberace when I grew up!
Sadly, I didn't quite make it. But I keep practicing!
[I think Cameron Carpenter is following in his footsteps well (though on the Organ). Though he channels some Virgil Fox, too.]
Last edited by Thrill Science; 05/29/13 12:04 PM.
Robert Swirsky Thrill Science, Inc.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 373
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 373 |
Watching Liberace on television as a young child was a big factor in my lifetime love-affair with the piano. I wanted to be Liberace when I grew up!
Sadly, I didn't quite make it. But I keep practicing! I am not sure PW can handle another Liberace, even though I don't mind it.
Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan Debussy--various pieces Grieg--various pieces
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,162
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,162 |
I saw the biopic last night and I have to agree with BruceD: Liberace was never in public as overtly gay as Michael Douglas depicts him. Douglas has him as too effeminate. Douglas does try very hard to get the voice right and most of the personality, and after awhile you get to believe in what he is doing. Damon is OK, but the make-up on both these actors is terrific, both before and after their plastic surgery (which I never knew anything about).
The biopic is all about the private lives of these two men, and I guess we just have to accept the script and the Scott Thorson book from which it comes as accurate. There is never any scene of Liberace practicing, which I find hard to believe. Liberace worked hard on all other aspects of his career, and his playing was never marred by egregious errors even at the end, so it is impossible to believe he didn't practice regularly. The other reason to think this is that most of his performances were with orchestra or band - not often solo. He had to memorize all his entrances and rehearse regularly with the orchestra. Once he got that down he probably went on auto-pilot for his one or two shows a day of the same material over and over, but every few months the material would change and he would have get back to practice and rehearsals.
If I recall he performed the Grieg concerto with the Chicago Symphony or Milwaukee Symphony when he was young, but then found his calling playing at bars. He had classical training and classical technique, and he used a range of techniques in his routines: arpeggios galore, repeated notes, octave scales, one and two hand cadenzas, trills, and Rachmaninoff-style concluding chordal runs up and down the keyboard. That was probably the extent of it. I don't think he bothered with rapid thirds, fourths, fifths and such-like passages such as you find in Feux-Follet or many Chopin etudes. But why should he? His playing already sounded very classy and sophisticated, and his arrangements (especially the early ones by brother George) were first-rate when he played with the orchestra.
In fact, other than his piano playing and out-sized personality (and don't forget his singing and dancing and acting), the arrangements were a big part of his success. They could be sophisticated, or beer-house style, or ballroom dancing in nature - whatever was required by the song. When you put all of this together you wind up with an entertainment powerhouse, which is exactly what he was in the 1950s. For awhile he was the most popular performer in America, and he became a multi-millionaire when that really meant something.
So we can spend a lot of time talking about his piano skills, but there was so much else going on with his form of entertainment, and it was so unique, that just calling him a piano player is almost a disservice.
Fazioli 228.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956 |
If I recall he performed the Grieg concerto with the Chicago Symphony or Milwaukee Symphony when he was young, but then found his calling playing at bars. When he was 20, he performed the Liszt Second Piano Concerto with the Chicago Symphony in Milwaukee.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,395
9000 Post Club Member
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,395 |
When I was a kid, growing up in the 1950's-60's, I saw Liberace on television a few times. And that was enough for me. I loved classical piano, and saw what he was doing as a complete travesty of it, and hated it. I can't honestly say at this point that I remember anything specific that he played other than fragments of this and that, but do remember that his tone seemed very harsh and his playing was almost completely lacking in the kind of highly developed nuance a good classical player would have.
To me, the showbiz stuff was just vulgar nonsense that had a creepy and maniacal edge to it, like some aspects of circuses - I wasn't sophisticated enough to see it as pure kitsch (and even if I had been that sophisticated, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed witnessing it). But, OTOH, I was sophisticated enough to see his flaunting of what money could buy, for its own sake, as being pretty tacky. And the unctuous smarm of his stage presence put me off, too. So, not a fan then, and now what interest I might have in him is mostly as a bizarre sociological phenomenon, and not as an entertainer. And in a funny way, I guess I still haven't forgiven him for what I saw him as doing to classical music.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,804
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,804 |
When I was a kid, growing up in the 1950's-60's, I saw Liberace on television a few times. And that was enough for me. I loved classical piano, and saw what he was doing as a complete travesty of it, and hated it. I can't honestly say at this point that I remember anything specific that he played other than fragments of this and that, but do remember that his tone seemed very harsh and his playing was almost completely lacking in the kind of highly developed nuance a good classical player would have.
To me, the showbiz stuff was just vulgar nonsense that had a creepy and maniacal edge to it, like some aspects of circuses - I wasn't sophisticated enough to see it as pure kitsch (and even if I had been that sophisticated, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed witnessing it). But, OTOH, I was sophisticated enough to see his flaunting of what money could buy, for its own sake, as being pretty tacky. And the unctuous smarm of his stage presence put me off, too. So, not a fan then, and now what interest I might have in him is mostly as a bizarre sociological phenomenon, and not as an entertainer. And in a funny way, I guess I still haven't forgiven him for what I saw him as doing to classical music.
Although I agree his performances of classical pieces were very poor, he only very rarely played classical music. I disagree that he flaunted what money could by for its own sake. That being said I do think his performances of popular music were quite limited and four square and his popularity was partly due to his show biz savvy.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,047
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,047 |
I fancy myself to be a connoisseur of fake piano playing in the movies, and if for no other reason, I will see this film about Liberace. I mean, it's gotta have a lotta fake piano playing by actors who can't even find middle C, and it's such a hoot when they fake piano playing badly, and so deeply satisfying when they do it well.
Typically, I score the fake piano playing 1-10, and so far, the only fake piano playing coming anywhere near a "10" is in "the Piano Teacher," a film hated by nearly everyone who has ever seen it--but still, the fake piano playing is truly superb. It really excites me. If there is anyone out there with a similar passion for fake piano playing, and who knows of a film with better fake piano playing than in "the Piano Teacher," I would truly like to know of it. It would even be edifying.
Tomasino
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 212
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 212 |
Flaunting his wealth, his execrable costumes and accessories, and his grotesquely effeminate behavior (while absolutely, unconditionally closeted) were the height of bad taste. To me, all of that overshadowed any thought of whether he was a good, or not good, pianist. That has absolutely nothing to do with OP's question. So what? Who the hill are you? Most of this entire execrable thread has nothing to do with the OP's question. Saludos and kudos, Mr. Police-man.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 589
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 589 |
I fancy myself to be a connoisseur of fake piano playing in the movies, and if for no other reason, I will see this film about Liberace. I mean, it's gotta have a lotta fake piano playing by actors who can't even find middle C, and it's such a hoot when they fake piano playing badly, and so deeply satisfying when they do it well.
The "fake playing" is PERFECT! Why? Because they digitally put Michael Douglas' head on the body of Philip Fortenberry See this article for more info. Fortenberry played a Liberace tribute show at the Liberace Museum and was very familiar with his arrangements (and playing with rings on!)
Last edited by Thrill Science; 05/30/13 12:37 AM.
Robert Swirsky Thrill Science, Inc.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956 |
I fancy myself to be a connoisseur of fake piano playing in the movies, and if for no other reason, I will see this film about Liberace. I mean, it's gotta have a lotta fake piano playing by actors who can't even find middle C, and it's such a hoot when they fake piano playing badly, and so deeply satisfying when they do it well. The "fake playing" is PERFECT! Why? Because they digitally put Michael Douglas' head on the body of Philip Fortenberry Well that explains a lot. I was kinda surprised that Douglas seemed to be faking so well. Now it appears that Fortenberry was actually doing the faking.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,162
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,162 |
If I recall he performed the Grieg concerto with the Chicago Symphony or Milwaukee Symphony when he was young, but then found his calling playing at bars. When he was 20, he performed the Liszt Second Piano Concerto with the Chicago Symphony in Milwaukee. I guess I'm even more impressed he was playing this concerto than the Grieg. Now that you mention it, isn't there a clip of him playing this concerto very late in life in a London concert? At best in the classical world he might have had a career as a second rate concert pianist. But as wr said, there wasn't any coloration or nuance in his playing. As a young boy in the 50s, I had zero knowledge of piano playing, much less nuance, and all I saw was this guy with his flourishes and dramatic gestures playing on this elegant piano (the mirrored fallboard somehow seemed to me the height of sophistication - I didn't care about the candelabra), and I thought that was what fancy (read classical) piano playing was like. Also, we had one and only one classical record in the house, and it was Jose Iturbi playing the Heroic Polonaise. I listened to that over and over, but my image of a classical piano performer was Liberace. Remember - he was much less flamboyant in the 50s - at most a tuxedo jacket in gold. None of the rhinestones, lace collars, rings on every finger type of excesses that moved him into camp and parody. He got away with his outrageous customes and lifestyle because he was very good at making fun of himself in front of his audience. His lines were very funny and his timing was perfect (you can see this in action from the tapes of his shows in the 70s). I think this is the fundamental reason why people may have wondered about his sexuality, but let it pass, because he was turning his entire act into a wink and a nod joke between him and his audience. It was actually quite brilliant and added 30 years to his performing career. As he always said, he never put on a concert, he put on a show. He knew show business better than just about anybody.
Fazioli 228.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956 |
As a young boy in the 50s, I had zero knowledge of piano playing, much less nuance, and all I saw was this guy with his flourishes and dramatic gestures playing on this elegant piano (the mirrored fallboard somehow seemed to me the height of sophistication - I didn't care about the candelabra), and I thought that was what fancy (read classical) piano playing was like. Also, we had one and only one classical record in the house, and it was Jose Iturbi playing the Heroic Polonaise. I listened to that over and over, but my image of a classical piano performer was Liberace. I had a similar experience growing up in the 50s. We had TWO classical records in the house - one that we bought from a Safeway grocery store that featured, among other selections the "Bacchanale" from Samson and Delilah, and the other, a 45 rpm recording of the Warsaw Concerto. Liberace actually lived about a mile from our house in Sherman Oaks, CA (in a large one story white stucco home with a piano shaped swimming pool in the backyard - and I remember our family driving out of town guests by it a couple of times. Liberace was my only classical piano role model back then as well. I would watch his TV program from time to time. I enjoyed the playing, but wasn't quite comfortable with his personality. I never actually heard Liberace play live until the early 1980s - when he performed in Omaha. The act was entertaining at first, but ultimately very shallow. I'm glad, however, that I had the opportunity to see him.
Last edited by carey; 05/30/13 11:25 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,906
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,906 |
I have a book published by Edwin H. Morris & Company, New York 19, N.Y. (before ZIP codes!): "Liberace by candlelight," a collection of some of his transcriptions of popular songs of the time (no date on the publication).
From the inside cover : "This versatile artist has captured audiences in smart supper clubs, concert halls and has appeared as soloist with many major symphony orchestras throughout the country. His performances in recent motion pictures have stirred movie audiences to spontaneous applause. His appeal on television encompasses all ages and tastes in music. His Columbia album marks his debut as a recording artist. As you listen to this gifted pianist you will bear witness that Liberace is leaving his hand prints on the sands of time."
From the back cover : "Reviews" - Milwaukee Sentinel : "The concert hall patrons had the time of their lives when Liberace played. His playing of the classics was awe-inspiring. He is truly a great virtuoso of our time." - Paul Price, L.A. Daily News : "...Thirty minutes of the most pleasant, relaxing entertainment you are likely to see on any man's TV station." - San Francisco Chronicle : "The theatre audience cheered and applauded his work on the screen." - Variety : "Liberace makes the huge Roxy Theatre as intimate as your own living room; a difficult feat to accomplish." - Buffalo Courier-Express : "His ability to project his art from himself to any audience is truly remarkable." - Minneapolis Star-Journal : "Liberace is the envy of all who ever took a piano lesson." - Chicago Sun-Times : "Unquestionably the master pianist of the café circuit. - Hollywood Coordinating Committee : "President Truman's favorite pianist." - Robert Ripley "Believe It or Not" : "Liberace can play 6,000 notes in two minutes, the fastest pianist in the world."
Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,956 |
I have a book published by Edwin H. Morris & Company, New York 19, N.Y. (before ZIP codes!): "Liberace by candlelight," a collection of some of his transcriptions of popular songs of the time (no date on the publication).
From the inside cover : "This versatile artist has captured audiences in smart supper clubs, concert halls and has appeared as soloist with many major symphony orchestras throughout the country. His performances in recent motion pictures have stirred movie audiences to spontaneous applause. His appeal on television encompasses all ages and tastes in music. His Columbia album marks his debut as a recording artist. As you listen to this gifted pianist you will bear witness that Liberace is leaving his hand prints on the sands of time."
From the back cover : "Reviews" - Milwaukee Sentinel : "The concert hall patrons had the time of their lives when Liberace played. His playing of the classics was awe-inspiring. He is truly a great virtuoso of our time." - Paul Price, L.A. Daily News : "...Thirty minutes of the most pleasant, relaxing entertainment you are likely to see on any man's TV station." - San Francisco Chronicle : "The theatre audience cheered and applauded his work on the screen." - Variety : "Liberace makes the huge Roxy Theatre as intimate as your own living room; a difficult feat to accomplish." - Buffalo Courier-Express : "His ability to project his art from himself to any audience is truly remarkable." - Minneapolis Star-Journal : "Liberace is the envy of all who ever took a piano lesson." - Chicago Sun-Times : "Unquestionably the master pianist of the café circuit. - Hollywood Coordinating Committee : "President Truman's favorite pianist." - Robert Ripley "Believe It or Not" : "Liberace can play 6,000 notes in two minutes, the fastest pianist in the world."
Regards, Obviously from the pre-Cliburn era !!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,162
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,162 |
Ah...the Warsaw Concerto. Now that's something you won't be hearing at the Van Cliburn. It was composed as a movie score for a film that needed to depict an actor performing a piano concerto. It was a pastiche - a short 10 minute excursion with an opening tempestuous part, and then a slow movement that came on without a break. Here's the problem: the theme in the slow section is absolutely gorgeous, and would have made Rachmaninoff proud. The concerto became a big hit and began to show up on concert stages. Wikipedia says the pianist for the film refused to let his name be credited for fear it would destroy his reputation as a classical artist. Then when the record album sold in the millions, he rethought things and demanded royalties. Good for him, I say.
I've got the solo piano version somewhere and you've inspired me to pull it out. I can hear it now - daah daah daah Daaaah, dahdahdah Daaah etc.
Fazioli 228.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 258
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 258 |
I do find it more than a little creepy that this 50+ year old man was sleeping around with 20-30 year old guys, and the whole plastic surgery and adoption bits just...no. I searched on Piano World expecting to find similar grievances from you about Hayden and his mistress Luigia Polzelli Luigia Polzelli, 30 years younger than he, and didn't find any! Well, my knowledge of Hayden (I'm more of a Mozart and Beethoven kinda guy) is very limited, so I wouldn't really have known enough about him to comment on his love life :P However, these sorts of affairs were quite common in history. Doesn't make it any less creepy, though.
Last edited by SBP; 05/31/13 09:48 PM.
2012 Kawai K3
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,394
Posts3,349,339
Members111,634
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|