2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Advanced Piano Tricks
Advanced Piano Tricks
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
114 members (36251, Ajax69, alohamusicfan, An Old Square, Abdol, 13bwl, anamnesis, accordeur, Alex Hutor, 17 invisible), 1,497 guests, and 442 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
Greta Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 20
I am 62 years old and resumed playing piano in 2007 after many years away from it. I am somewhere between an Intermediate and advanced player. I especially like ragtime and Bach.

I own a 2001 Yamaha 450m which I bought used in 2007. It has great sound, and I love it, but I would like to be able to play with headphones when my husband is asleep or watching TV.

I saw in a recent Wall Street Journal article that a professional musician was very impressed with the Yamaha AvantGrand N2, but it is beyond my price point.

Much more affordable is the Yamaha AvantGrand NU-1 Hybrid, especially if I sell my Yamaha 450 and apply the money to the purchase.

I took group piano lessons last fall at the Jazz School in Berkeley CA, and enjoyed using their Yamaha digital pianos which is what got me thinking along these lines.

The advantages to me would be
(1) ability to use headphones
(2) smaller footprint in my small home

Will I be dissatisfied? Should I stick with my acoustic piano? An alternate possibility would be to add a used 88-key digital piano for those times I want to use headphones, but I would rather have less stuff in this house, not more.


Last edited by Greta; 04/19/13 03:31 PM. Reason: typo correction
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1
J
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1
Hi!

In my opinion, keyboards are great because you never need to tune them and they have the volume control, but they just can't compare to the touch and feel of an acoustic piano.

However, I did have the opportunity to play on a couple of avantgrands and they completely blew me away. I've never played on a keyboard that 'felt' that close to the real thing before. I haven't done any research on them, so I don't know how they hold up over time though, because they do still need maintenance. (They're actually 'hybrids' rather than 'keyboards': apparently they have a real piano action, etc.) Also, I'm not sure how long before the novelty would wear off, and it just feels like another keyboard.

I'm not sure if it's just aesthetic, but there's something about a 'real' piano that makes the music come alive for me.

But if you're set on a keyboard, then my advice would be to try out a bunch of keyboards and acoustic pianos and see what you think.(Depending on how serious you are, "The Piano Book" by Larry Fine is a wonderful tool for going through the process of buying a new instrument.)

Good luck and have fun, whatever you do!


Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 30,275
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 30,275
The footprint is going to be about the same. The space needed for an action is not going to change much.

Whether you will be dissatisfied or not is a personal matter. I recently tried an Avant Grand in a circumstance where I was not certain what I was playing, and I immediately knew it was not a piano. But different people have different expectations.


Semipro Tech
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 248
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 248
When i was looking for an acoustic piano, my husband insisted i look into a better digital keyboard. I tried the NU1. A yamaha dealer around my area (I live in NJ) was selling it for $5000! I thought that was ridiculous. My friend bought it for $3200 somewhere in NY metro. Hope that gives you an idea on how much those babies cost. Happy shopping!

Last edited by ElleC; 04/19/13 04:12 PM.

Adult beginner since January 2013. My only regret is that I didn't learn sooner.
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 22
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 22
Greta,

Probably best to retain the acoustic and find a way to bring in a suitable digital if at all possible. After starting to learn from scatch on a couple of digitals since 2009 aged 61 I have just bought a Kawai vertical and its much more responsive than the CP33 and P85 I had before.

Dynamics, response and tone are much better, even though the CP33 ran through good speakers and with an excellent software piano to replace the onboard sounds.

As you are a much more accomplished player, I think you'd really miss the acoustic.

I'm keeping the CP33 for silent practice and for my young grandchildren to try out when they come over, so for now I need both types.

Hope this helps

Colin


Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,315
K
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,315
One of the ways that the sound of the digitals is spoken about is how "realistic" their sound is.

After a moment's reflection, one realizes that "realistic" means "fake". (Wanna buy a "realistic" diamond?)

The multi-dimensional sensory experience of an acoustic piano has yet to be fully duplicated by any level of electronics -- although some are quite good. You may find the sound of the digital unsatisfying -- particularly with the passage of time.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,701
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,701
With sound volume an issue, the N2 is an excellent choice. It's not unusual for pianist to have both acoustic and digital instruments; Have fun trying out the huge assortment of different keyboards.



"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
I think you may regret not having an acoustic piano. There is a reason why so many give up their digital pianos for the real thing or have both. It's better to keep your acoustic and add a digital. You don't have to go so high end with the digital either when you have the real thing to go to. Have you tried the CLP-430? It's half the price of the NU1 and it would work well for silent / low volume practice.

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
T
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Check out the digital forum on pianoworld. There are threads there of people discussing returning their NU1's after 2 months and their Avantgrands after a year out of dissatisfaction.

I second Colin's advice to keep your acoustic and to buy a digital piano to enable silent play. For example, the Roland HP series offers good value. Depending on your living situation you could have the instruments in different rooms where the digital is situated to give your partner maximum relief from hearing anything at all during your practice...

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 267
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by ColinH
Probably best to retain the acoustic and find a way to bring in a suitable digital if at all possible. After starting to learn from scatch on a couple of digitals since 2009 aged 61 I have just bought a Kawai vertical and its much more responsive than the CP33 and P85 I had before.

Dynamics, response and tone are much better


I would also recommend to keep the acoustic, however I do not see the point to compare P85 against acoustic or even NU1.
Inexpensive digitals cannot compare to a good acoustic, even to higher-end digitals. Responsiveness is lacking, but it is much less the case with mid-range digitals.
My point is not to buy a lowest price digital, if possible, keep acoustic and buy a digital which has more or less suitable dinamics. They can be found at around 2-2.5K or higher - some examples are Roland HP-503 or DP-90, FP-80, Yamaha CLP-440, some Kawai models but I am not an expert.

I would recommend trying different digitals, compare them to acoustic, and see what you hear.


Roland HP-507RW | Yamaha U1 | Roland FP-90
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 534
T
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 534
Dear Greta,

I am surprised that no mention has been made of the Yamaha 'Silent Series' pianos. If you can get to a Yamaha dealer (....or just look at the Yamaha website) there are several uprights and grands with precisely the feature that you are looking for; a regular acoustic piano that can be used with headphones, too!

These 'Silent Series' pianos are standard acoustic pianos, just like your's, but have a key sensor rail. When you activate the 'Silent' feature a rail drops down and stops the hammers from hitting the strings and the piano becomes a 'keyboard' with several voice options (...like a pipe-organ!) and can be used with headphones. Their piano sound is based on sampling of their concert 9-ft grand piano, as I understand it.

You don't have to give up having an acoustic piano to have headphones, too! But, they are....shall we say...not inexpensive. (sigh) The best thing to do is to get to a Yamaha dealer, and see what they have, and what they can do for you. You do NOT have to give up having an acoustic piano, with good touch and tone, to have headphones, too. The 'Silent Series' uprights were built with you in mind.....

Smiling,
I am,
NOT a Yamaha salesperson,
(but I service a piano teacher's
Silent Series upright),
Respectfully,

Last edited by TunerJeff; 04/20/13 11:30 AM.

Jeffrey T. Hickey, RPT
Oregon Coast Piano Services
TunerJeff440@aol.com
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,701
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,701
The silent series are a great option, especially Yamaha's Disklavier systems.

I like being able to take my (relatively) inexpensive keyboard with me when I visit friends or travel.


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,206
R

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014
2000 Post Club Member
Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014
2000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,206
Originally Posted by Greta
...I saw in a recent Wall Street Journal article that a professional musician was very impressed with the Yamaha AvantGrand N2, but it is beyond my price point.


Wall Street Journal? A prostitute has more integrity.

Any audiophile will tell you that live is better. Even with stunningly impressive electronic reproduction. Live is still better.

If you want a better piano. Buy one. Then buy your husband headphones for TV while you're playing. Earplugs for sleeping when you're playing. smile Or better yet. When you want to play. Just tell your husband you have something for him to do. His hearing will turn off, automatically.


Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
T
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Originally Posted by TunerJeff
Dear Greta,

I am surprised that no mention has been made of the Yamaha 'Silent Series' pianos.


A cool ten grand for a decent one.

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 30,275
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 30,275
I think that is still less than the NU-1.


Semipro Tech
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
C
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Greta,

I spent some time considering whether to go down the digital piano route recently.

As a child I played a keyboard, and to a lesser extend an acoustic piano. After many years away from playing I started back again with an acoustic piano (which was about 4 years ago.)
I then got a fully weighted 88 note midi controller for using with recording software, so I am not "digital phobic" at all.

Each has it's advantages and disadvantages!

Having a 2 year old I too have a need for "quiet" practice time later in the evenings, but I really do like the feel and sound of an acoustic instrument.

So when it came time upgrade my piano recently I did consider combining the advantages of both and go with a digital. What I found was that you also combine all the disadvantages!
For me a digital was great fun and I do like the additional voices / functions etc... but it just wasn't the same (either in feel or piano sound) as an acoustic.

There are a few hybrid type systems as already mentioned which can give you a "silent" acoustic option, but I found these to be a very expensive option.

In the end I think the best way to look at this is that digital and acoustic pianos are just 2 different instruments. Neither is better or worse, depending on what you are looking for, they are just different. You wouldn't compare a violin to trumpet etc!
A digital piano is not an acoustic piano without the sound.

However, both can provide a great deal of enjoyment if you embrace them and what they are.

Given the parameters you are working with I would suggest from a budget point of view keep the acoustic and try looking at a fully weighted keyboard in addition.
From a space aspect keyboards do take up less room, they tend to be very light (certainly compared with a piano) and can be packed away very easily if needed. A number of keyboards (or even stage pianos) use similar or identical actions to their full cabinet digital piano relations from the same manufacturer.

The keyboard will give you the option to practice quietly and when you "need" the feel of the acoustic it will still be there. - I also think that just knowing you have an acoustic available will not make you miss it when playing the keyboard. - I know this is just psychological but that is how I feel when playing my keyboard. Having both doesn't feel like you are having to compromise.

Another point I would raise is that you mentioned ragtime and Bach as favourites. These are quiet different! A neat thing with a keyboard is that you can have significantly different sounds/types of piano voice (or even other instrument sounds) which suit the piece being played. - just a thought..

Good luck with whatever you decide.






Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,389
A
Bronze Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Bronze Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,389
Originally Posted by theJourney
Originally Posted by TunerJeff
Dear Greta,

I am surprised that no mention has been made of the Yamaha 'Silent Series' pianos.


A cool ten grand for a decent one.


That is about twice the price of a new NU-1. But it would take up less space than having an acoustic AND a hybrid. And you could practice in "headphone mode" on an instrument that has the same touch and action as your acoustic - because it IS the acoustic.


Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
removing a key from a grand
by johnfin - 01/23/22 03:27 PM
Dexibel H10, está infravalorado este piano?
by Franlober - 01/23/22 02:33 PM
time signatures - every day (non musical) life example?
by ShowerCurtain465 - 01/23/22 12:04 PM
One sour bass note
by benz-tech - 01/23/22 11:04 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics211,316
Posts3,163,388
Members104,130
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5