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Originally Posted by CHAS
"pinblock fitted to plate flange" Is that the same as Bosendorfer and Estonia?
If not, what is it that Bosendorfer and Estonia do that transmits the vibration to the keys?

Just found it. Keyboards built into the rim is what Bosendorfer and Estonia do.


Maybe you were confused or using the wrong term, but neither of those "features" have anytyhing to do with transmitting vibration, Chas.

Vibration begins at the hammer strike of course. The vibration of the string goes through the bridge (which acts as a transducer) and then into the soundboard, which vibrates and moves the vibrations into the air and, eventually, into our ears.

The soundboard is needed because it comes in direct contact with much more air than the string itself, therefore we hear it better.

After writing this, I am thinking that you meant to say something completely different. If so, please repeat it dufferently because I did not understand. smile

All the best,


Rich Galassini
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ok
What is done differently by Bosendorfer and Estonia that is said to causes the keys to vibrate giving the player a sensation much like playing a cello or other vibrating instrument.


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Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Originally Posted by CHAS
"pinblock fitted to plate flange" Is that the same as Bosendorfer and Estonia?
If not, what is it that Bosendorfer and Estonia do that transmits the vibration to the keys?

Just found it. Keyboards built into the rim is what Bosendorfer and Estonia do.


Maybe you were confused or using the wrong term, but neither of those "features" have anytyhing to do with transmitting vibration, Chas.

Vibration begins at the hammer strike of course. The vibration of the string goes through the bridge (which acts as a transducer) and then into the soundboard, which vibrates and moves the vibrations into the air and, eventually, into our ears.

The soundboard is needed because it comes in direct contact with much more air than the string itself, therefore we hear it better.

After writing this, I am thinking that you meant to say something completely different. If so, please repeat it dufferently because I did not understand. smile

All the best,



Rich,

I believe that CHAS meant the following.

The vibrating energy of the strings is not just about movement of the soundboard.
Higher quality manufacturers go through lengths to preserve and/or direct the energy stemming from the vibrating strings.

Quality pianos often transmit the vibrations underneath the keys (hence the spruce surface underneath the keys) and feel it provides the player a better connection with the music.

It is a rather pronounced affect in most quality grand pianos although players may take it as 'granted' or may be unable to pinpoint/explain the better connection...but it certainly makes a difference.

I find this affect very pronounced Steingraeber pianos, for example...and at times had seen people refer to playing one as almost 'playing on the strings'.

If you have a piano with the action out simply pluck a string while placing your hand on the spruce surface and you'll feel the same vibration which is transmitted to the fingers.


Ori Bukai - Owner/Founder of Allegro Pianos - CT / NYC area.

One can usually play at our showroom:

Bluthner, Steingraeber, Estonia, Haessler, Sauter, Kawai, Steinway, Bosendorfer and more.

www.allegropianos.com
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Originally Posted by Rafterman
Are the Kawai police after me? wink

Depending on when you stroke. No signs the first day but the following days. Only exhibition with No Photo signs as far as I discovered. Great pictures and grands in any case.

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I tell you the pianos they had on display were well regulated. The Shigeru SK6 action was just amazing. I look forward to seeing the GX series on the East Coast.

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How about a picture of the Artist bench with pneumatic control.


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Originally Posted by Rafterman
I tell you the pianos they had on display were well regulated. The Shigeru SK6 action was just amazing. I look forward to seeing the GX series on the East Coast.


Thank you. That is a very nice complement to David Reed and myself.

The GX pianos will begin arriving in North America towards the end of March, but most dealers will wait until they have reduced their inventories of RX grands before ordering many.


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Mr. Mannino,
Your mention earlier of the new Kawai's bright, shiny metal tuning pins has been following me these days. Care to illuminate on their exact composition? Are they Stainless or Titanium alloy?


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
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Originally Posted by Rafterman
I tell you the pianos they had on display were well regulated. The Shigeru SK6 action was just amazing. I look forward to seeing the GX series on the East Coast.


It makes an amazing difference to a piano when they're well regulated. Pity dealers/distributors don't realise that when pianos are put on display in stores - at least here.


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Does anyone know more information about the GX series pianos?

- Has it already been released in Japan?
- Will there be a simultaneous rollout in all parts of the world in March? (USA, Europe, Asia, Oceania?)
- Are the extra length keys all the same no matter the size of the piano (GX-2 to GX-7?)
- Does the extra length really make the difference that is claimed? Does it make the action lighter? Heavier? More responsive for PPP passages? Louder for FFF passages?
- Is the action still considered M-3 Ninja or some new variant?
- Is this a quantum leap forward or should I consider getting an RX on runout sale?

Inquiring minds need to know!

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Acca,

I have played a GX-1 in a Kawai shop in Japan, so it is safe to say it has been released here. I also received a brochure of the GX-line.

I think it is not a quantum leap over the latest RX's. Actually I did not like the sound of the GX-1 that much. Touch was good, but I did not experience much difference with a new RX.

In Japan producers generally do not make quantum leaps; they rather improve their products gradually over the years. The GX-line should be seen in the same light. I heard that the GX-line has some features of the SK-line, though, so it certainly should have potential. I am very hopeful for the GX-2 and higher.

If I were you I would snap up a new RX. The GX may be somewhat better, but it is also somewhat more expensive. Now is probably the time to get a good deal on a new RX.


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Thanks for the insights, PianistInJapan. Weren't there any larger size GX's in the store to test? Interesting that you couldn't really tell the difference that the "longer keys" made. Did you do the comparison side to side with an RX?

Seems to me Kawai has been following the old 4 year car companies cycle lately for introducing upgrades: 2004 was Millennium 3, 2008/2009 was the "ninja" upgrade, 2012/2013 is the GX... Just trying to sort out the marketing hype from actual improvements.

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Acca,

No, there weren't any larger GX's in the store unfortunately.

There were the following models, though, all of which I played: RX-2 (new and second-hand), RX-3, SK-2, SK-3, Boston (forgot which type, but it was a smaller one, probably similar size as RX-2).

The GX-1 was not to my taste, so I did not play extensively on it. I tried to notice a difference in the touch, but could not easily distinguish it. The keys are only 1 cm (half an inch) or so longer, so the difference would not be dramatic anyway. If there is a difference at all, it should be most easily felt to the inside where the black keys are. But as said, even when consciously trying to notice, I did not find it much lighter than the other new grands (the second-hand felt a bit heavier).

Then again, my impressions are just one data point biased by personal preferences and my own technical inadequacies, so I encourage everyone to make up one's own mind.

Kawai has updated the RX-line many times, while keeping the RX name. Even when changing to carbon action, they did not change the name. The changes this time are probably smaller than before, but maybe the marketing department recommended the launch of the GX-line.


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I went to the Kawai store again today, and played the GX-1 once more to check my former impressions.

First of all, the touch is indeed lighter than the RX's in the store, and the keys are actually 2 cm longer than those of the RX-line. At this point it becomes a matter of personal preference. The touch of the RX-line is already very nice, and every time I play an RX I am truly impressed by the speed of the action. Really amazing! Fast passages and trills with which I struggle on my old digital Kawai become suddenly so easy. smile
Of course, the GX inherits all that, and adds a somewhat lighter touch.

Another difference between the RX and GX is the thickness of the board separating the keys from the pin block. Compared with the RX, this board is twice as thick in the GX, like in the SK-line. This gives the pin block more stiffness, making the piano hold its tune better.

I still wasn't charmed by the tone of the GX-1, but some tuning might make that better.


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Thanks for the first hand insights, PianistInJapan. My observation is that you are comparing the tone of a 1 series in the GX vs 2 or larger in the RX line, kinda unfair IMO. However the touch should be the same since I would think the keyboard assembly is identical across the series ( differing only in length of strings and casing and soundboard, which would obviously affect tone ). Maybe I should wait a couple more months for GXs to be available before making my decision... I would be looking at a GX-2 anyway.

Actually one of the supposed advantages of a longer key length is that it makes the touch more consistent along the whole length of the key, did you find much of a difference between the RX and the GX in that regard?

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The touch difference is quite noticeable, especially in the smaller grands. The added inch (approx) in the key length has more affect in the smaller pianos.

The keys are the same amount longer than the equivalent RX of the same model. So the GX-6 keys are about an inch longer than the RX-6, etc. The way you can feel the improvement is to play the keys repeatedly (not especially fast, just repeat at a comfortable speed) and move your finger from front to back on the key. There is always a difference in touch resistance in piano keys from front to back, but with longer key lengths the difference becomes smaller. This is one reason pianists prefer to have a 7-foot sized grand for practice if possible. So in the smaller grands (GX-1, GX-2, GX-3) you get the most benefit of the longer keys. If you do this test on an RX, then move to the equivalent GX you can feel the difference.

The structure is substantially stronger in the front area of the piano with the GX pianos, and the rims are made of a blending of 2 different very hard woods, one a northern grown closed pore hardwood, the other a tropical grown open grain wood of equal hardness.

The soundboard is also slightly different in how it is tapered, and the string scale has been changed slightly to improve sustain.

So the pianos are fairly substantially different than the RX grands, and that is why it was decided to change to a new model designation. This is similar to when the KG grands were changed to RX back in 1995 - the design had been changed a lot at that time, too.

I hope this helps.


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Thanks Don. Want. One. Now. cry

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Thanks for clearing that up Don. I made an appointment at the Osaka Kawai shop to try out an GX-2 and GX-3 next Saturday.

Looking forward to it. smile

BTW, in what aspects differs the GX-line from the SK-line? I get the impression that they are closer than the RX and previous version of SK.


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It seems like there are an awful lot of "new lines" of Kawais coming out lately. In the grand scheme of things, the RX series really isn't that old, is it? Very recently, the BLAK series was released, and now the GX? This is becoming as bad as the iPhone, where a new model is released every other week.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the GX line, but this seems like marketing more than anything else.


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Why would you think that it's just marketing when just a few posts above KawaiDon clearly outlined the tangible improvements made to the line? What's wrong with a company improving their products? It doesn't make your RX any less of an instrument then it was when you bought it.


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