2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Week Deals
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
62 members (BravoRomeo, An Old Square, anotherscott, busa, brdwyguy, AlanK, beeboss, butchkoch, 11 invisible), 676 guests, and 518 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
B
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
I was referred here by a discussion on Amazon and read through the helpful intro linked at the top of this forum. I'm an adult starting to take piano lessons and would like to get a digital piano. I live in an apartment so being able to use headphones is important. I'm mostly interested in classical music, so not particularly interested in lots of voices, bells and whistles, etc. It seems smart to get something with keys weighted like a real piano so that it isn't a shock to switch over. Also, I have a traditional decor so I'd prefer something with a wood (or wood-esque) case rather than lots of plastic and blinky lights.

Browsing on Amazon, it seems like the Yamaha Arius is along the right lines, but are there other brands or product lines I should look at? Other dealers? Also, there is a pretty broad price range across the Arius models and I don't understand all the details that distinguish them. I could spend the money, but my naturally frugal side balks at running out and spending $1500 on a brand-new hobby if I could spend $800. Or, maybe I could buy the world's cheapest tabletop keyboard now, and something better in six months.

One question I haven't seen addressed specifically about the digital pianos is resale value. I hope I love doing this, but if I don't, is a keyboard or digital piano easy to sell? I searched my local Craigslist to see if anything was listed there and didn't find much. I couldn't tell if that's because most people keep theirs, or they sell quickly, or what.

If anyone has advice to steer me in the right direction, it would be appreciated! (Or, more questions to ask... but I feel like I already have a lot to think about.)

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,722
D
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,722
Casio PX-150
$599 HERE


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 59
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 59
yamaha p-95 or yamaha p-155

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,549
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,549
If you're reluctant to make a large purchase you can always rent.

If after a while you think you'll stick with it, I'd recommend the Yamaha N1. You'll have a small enough package for your apartment and one with a grand piano action.


Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,182
A
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,182
Originally Posted by bradamant
One question I haven't seen addressed specifically about the digital pianos is resale value. I hope I love doing this, but if I don't, is a keyboard or digital piano easy to sell? I searched my local Craigslist to see if anything was listed there and didn't find much. I couldn't tell if that's because most people keep theirs, or they sell quickly, or what.

Check eBay for a larger sample than Craigslist, and look at their "Completed Listings" to see whether items actually sold and what they sold for.

In general, it's harder to sell stuff that weighs more than 70 lbs boxed up, because the shipping starts to get prohibitive. That tends to push you to local buyers only (i.e. Craigslist), and limiting yourself to local purchasers makes things harder to sell.

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,182
A
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,182
Originally Posted by Dr Popper
Casio PX-150
$599

I am cautiously optimistic about the new Casios, but I would be hesitant to recommend them until we can actually wrap our hands and ears around them. The PX-330 was supposed to be a big step up for Casio, and I ended up liking my older PX-310 much better!

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552
G
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552
Arius models look a little more like a piano, but the P155 is smaller and cheaper and features the same action (GH) as the better Arius (161 and better). Arius 141 and lower feature a different, cheaper action (GHS). There are a few people who like it better (anotherscott, I'm looking at you) but I don't. You can try out the GH and GHS action at just about any store that has digital pianos as almost all of Yamaha's models feature one of these.

Anyway, in Yamaha the P155 (on amazon) is a great buy on the low-but-not-really-low end. Also look at the Kawai ES3, which just got a really good review by a forum member with a lot of experience and it costs only a smidge more.

The Casios are noticeably cheaper than either and often have better features, like a triple sensor action. If you like them, they are a serious win. There's not really a consensus about the quality here, though. I think most people still stick to the notion that Casio's stuff is cheap for a reason, despite them making a lot of improvements lately and looking great on paper. Your call.

Last edited by gvfarns; 08/19/12 10:25 AM.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,182
A
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,182
Originally Posted by gvfarns
a different, cheaper action (GHS). There are a few people who like it better (anotherscott, I'm looking at you) but I don't.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the GH action, a bit heavy feeling for my taste. But just to be clear, I don't think the GHS action is great. It's okay. For me, saying I like it better than GH is damning with faint praise. ;-)

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
B
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
Thanks! I hadn't really thought of renting, so I just contacted a local store to ask about that. eBay was also a good idea--I didn't see many successful sale listings, so that's something to take as a warning. Thanks also for the explanation about the different actions, I understand that better now.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,095
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,095
Your mention of a tabletop model vs Arius begs the basic question of what do you want? Do you want cheap and acceptable or intermediate and nice? Is this for your living room or do you envision moving it more than 3-4 times a year? Do you have an interest in related features, rhythms, non-piano sounds? Do you have a priority to listen through headphones or primarily through built-in speakers?

I think renting costs you money rather than saving you money unless your next step is a purchase greater than ~$1500. In reality, there are less than a dozen current popular models under $1500, and if you answer any of the earlier questions, you'll quickly cut that down to about 3-6 models to choose from. At that point, the decision gets pretty easy and renting becomes wasteful.

Good luck!


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,722
D
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,722
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Dr Popper
Casio PX-150
$599

I am cautiously optimistic about the new Casios, but I would be hesitant to recommend them until we can actually wrap our hands and ears around them. The PX-330 was supposed to be a big step up for Casio, and I ended up liking my older PX-310 much better!


They are worth a listen Scotty ...massive step upwards IMHO


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
B
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
You're right, I'm kind of feeling out what I want, and the main reason for my confusion is that, going into this research, I had no idea of what kind of price to expect. $150? $1500? $5000 and up? I don't want to be a sucker and overspend on a new hobby, but it's looking like I could afford something intermediate and nice. It's funny, I spoke to my mother this afternoon, who used to play, and she was shocked you could get anything decent for $1500. Different expectations!

It will be in my living room, and I don't anticipate moving it regularly. However, there's a chance that I could be relocating to a new city in the next six months, so I'm wary of buying huge, heavy objects that are difficult/expensive to move. (In fact, I considered putting off the whole piano lessons idea, but I found a teacher I really like in my current city, plus I don't want to put off doing something enjoyable just because I *might* have a change in my job sometime in the future.) Since it will be in my living room, I would be willing to shell out a bit more for something that looks nice (in a traditional way).

I don't think I'm very interested in rhythms and non-piano sounds, since I like classical and chamber music best. As long as I can turn the piano volume down, I don't think I'd necessarily need to use headphones most of the time. I do think an acoustic piano would drive the other apartment dwellers nuts, which is why I started by looking and keyboards/digital.

I spoke to a local dealer this weekend who didn't seem to have a huge stock in digital pianos but who recommended the Yamaha Arius 161 which they do carry. The store does delivery, which is really tempting to me versus Amazon or another online retailer, because it looks like many of these keyboards come in boxes bigger than me (a petite woman) and if I order from Amazon, UPS will just leave the box in the lobby of my building. Oy vey. It sounds like the local dealer would do delivery plus set-up which I'd also be willing to pay for.

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,714
If you have the option to purchase from a local dealer, I strongly recommend that you do so. They will either deliver the instrument pre-assembled, or assemble everything in your home. In addition, the store will be on hand to provide assistance should you have any queries about or issues with the piano.

Best of luck!

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552
G
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552
The Arius 161 is sort of the first really acceptable piano in Yamaha's line. It's on par with the P155 I mentioned earlier (same action, though the P155 has a newer sound engine I believe). The P155 weighs little enough that you would probably have no problem carrying the box up to your apartment.

In terms of price, pianos between $1000 and $2000 get talked about a lot here. For console models, add about $1000 to those numbers. A very high end model (from an expensive brand) would be the Roland RD700NX at $2700. But the little brother, the FP7F, features the same action and main piano voice for $2000 and is well beloved in this forum.

In digital pianos I tend to group models according to their action...the other differences between models of the same action do not tend to be large. In Yamaha the GHS is low end, and GH is higher (as well as the three sensor GH3), then NW, and finally the wooden action in the AvantGrands. In Roland the top action is the PHAIII. There are other lower actions often referred to as Ivory Feel G but I'm not clear on the relationship (if any) between these and PHAII, the lower-end action. In Kawai you have RH and now RH2 in the plastic actions (and AHA IV on the low end) and then the wooden actions, GF, RM3, AWA PRO in reverse chronological order.

I've focused on slab-style and stage pianos because you get a lot of piano for the money. Console models can generally only be had at brick-and-mortar stores and therefore have much higher premiums, especially if you don't negotiate hard.

Last edited by gvfarns; 08/20/12 12:05 AM.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 171
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by bradamant
You're right, I'm kind of feeling out what I want, and the main reason for my confusion is that, going into this research, I had no idea of what kind of price to expect. $150? $1500? $5000 and up? I don't want to be a sucker and overspend on a new hobby, but it's looking like I could afford something intermediate and nice. It's funny, I spoke to my mother this afternoon, who used to play, and she was shocked you could get anything decent for $1500. Different expectations!


Once you start shopping for acoustic pianos, you'll see how lucky we are to be able to buy such nice sounding digital pianos for not too much money. $1500 sounds reasonable to me. I own an Arius 181 and have no regrets.


Schimmel 130T
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,182
A
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,182
Originally Posted by gvfarns
A very high end model (from an expensive brand) would be the Roland RD700NX at $2700. But the little brother, the FP7F, features the same action and main piano voice for $2000 and is well beloved in this forum.

Also, unlike the RD700NX, the FP7F has speakers built in, which I'm pretty sure the OP would want.

The only higher end ($1000+) "slab" pianos with speakers are the FP7F, the two Yamahas, P155 and CP300. (Maybe Kawai has something, I'm not sure.) Other than that, you'd have to go with something with more of a "home" look (which it sounds like the OP would prefer anyway), and while not as easily portable as a slab model, some of them do break down pretty easily such that moving them to a new home would not be problematic.

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,722
D
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,722
Kawai ES7 or FP7F @ the high end.


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
B
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by gvfarns
Console models can generally only be had at brick-and-mortar stores and therefore have much higher premiums, especially if you don't negotiate hard.


Oh my! It hadn't occurred to me to try to negotiate. Is that appropriate in this context? The store I talked to said they price-matched the Internet on the model they had, and having looked online myself, I think they really do.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552
G
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,552
Piano stores vary, unfortunately. Some expect big negotiations, others put up a near-final price. The former is much more common in my experience.

Both the MSRP and the sticker price of digital pianos are typically much higher than the selling price. I would look for something like a 20% reduction from the sticker price in many cases.

To give you an example. The MSRP of an AvantGrand N3 is $20,000 or something (maybe more). What we've seen lately is selling prices (in the US) between $10,000 and $15,000. I would never pay more than $15K for an N3. It's an extreme example but it gives you the idea.

Console models from the big brands are not available on the internet precisely to prevent retailers from having to match internet prices. Any model you can find both on the internet and at a retailer, and in which the retailer has matched the price, will probably not be subject to negotiation. Basically those will all be slab/stage pianos.

Last edited by gvfarns; 08/20/12 11:35 AM.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
I think 20% off sticker is too high. On Larry Fine's web page (pianobuyer.com), he gives list prices and estimated street prices. The latter are generally 20% to 25% off of list.

So if you pay 20% off, you're paying at or above the average. I'd prefer to be among those who pay below average. I'd offer 35% off and settle for 30% off.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
DPs and spares
by stevedoz - 12/05/21 07:56 AM
Any opinions on the CASIO CDP-S100 BK or similar piano?
by RosemaryGirl - 12/05/21 07:55 AM
Damper pedal plastic piece on AP
by MooganDavid - 12/04/21 10:57 PM
Handel, Haydn, Schubert
by chopinetto - 12/04/21 10:46 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,396
Posts3,150,743
Members103,523
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5