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Originally Posted by jivemutha
Originally Posted by nillabean
Jivemutha,
I experimented last night regarding the digital fuzziness with chords. My question to you is how much time have you spent playing keyboards? I've pretty much only played keyboards the last 25 years and my experience is that there is always some mushiness with multiple notes played--especially through headphones. Are you using the included headphones, or some of your own? I had some really nice ATH-500 Audio Technicas that I thought would sound better than the included Yamaha ones, but actually I ended up liking the Yamaha ones better--mostly because they seemed louder and more clear for piano. Anyway, I feel like I too noticed the fuzziness, but that I accepted it as the limitation to listening to digital piano through headphones. Have you tried hooking up speakers and seeing if you notice it there?


First, thank you very much for taking the time to do this bit of detective work on my behalf. Regarding your comments . . .

Initially I tried the Yamaha headphones. That's when I first noticed the problem. PW people recommended that I get fancy expensive headphones. $400 later, I discovered that Sennheiser HD650 phones rated as terrific by all but some of the obsessively complusive audiophile contingent did not get rid of the problem. Then, PW people and the place that fixes my stereo equipment asked if I needed to turn the volume way up when using the fancy headphones. When I answered "yes" they then recommended a headphone amplifier. $50 later, I discovered that also did not get rid of the problem.

I went back to the dealer to play Disklavier Yamahas with the same basic digital specs as your and my "silent" pianos. The same problem occurred.

What PW audio techy people are currently recommending is buying special software for my laptop and running a signal (perhaps from the USB port hidden under the black box hanging under my keyboard) to the laptop and plugging my fancy headphones into the laptop. This would mean having the laptop next to the piano whenever I played through headphones. Yuk!

At least for now, my feeling is the same as yours: I give up. I think the best thing is to accept the limitations of the technology rather than jump through all the hoops needed to conduct the next experiment (the one with the laptop).

I have not tried speakers. If I'm in a position to play without headphones (which in my condo means after 9 a.m., before 9 p.m., and for practical reasons when I'm NOT playing awful repetitive stuff like learning a new voicing in 12 keys) of course I only want to hear the real piano--not the digital. After all, of the whopping $26K I had to pay for the C2SG, all but 3K was for the real thing. Besides, I really dislike the sound of digital pianos--even the AvantGrand--and use headphones only when there's absolutely no other option.

Again, thank you very much! Your comments are helpful and in an odd way reassuring.


I actually was doing some searching for headphones and found the forum where you initially asked every what they thought--and saw the recommendation to use amps/midi out, etc. i imagine that would be a slight improvement, but I share in your annoyance of going that far--who wants to add all this crap to your setup. I honestly view the silent feature as simply the greatest way to be able to practice after hours--making the acoustic playing time that much more satisfying (and more quality due to the extra practice). For me last night, it wasn't even quiet hours yet (10pm at my place) but I could hear my neighbors hanging out in the living room next to me and didn't want them to hear (nor me feel self conscious about) the repetitive practicing I was engaged in. I tried a few different headphones, and really experienced the drastic difference between digital and acoustic. I also noticed that it sounded more in tune, lol.
But it was so helpful--it reminded me of my lonely, albeit it productive days, of doing nothing but playing with headphones. Its just a different experience completely, and one that is there as a tool to practice--not perform. The greatest thing about it being that you get to use the same great action and keys on your amazing hybrid instrument. People who recommend getting an electric keyboard to play after hours--no thanks.
Anyway, I seriously doubt the fuzziness is anything wrong with your piano.
What the speakers are good for, btw, is playing afterhours at a low volume, without having to use headphones--like if you have company for example and are messing around. I was amazed at how good a couple of powered speakers sounded sitting on top of the piano--especially with the other sounds. Have you tried the other instruments yet? Electric piano, organ, etc.? They are really great samples and sound totally cool.

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Originally Posted by jivemutha
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by jivemutha
True, if the dealer did no prep then even a Yamaha will be a bit rough literally out of the crate. That said, it CAN be made to sound just like the 2 you played except for one significant difference: the difference between the acoustics in your home vs. the dealership. That's more than can be said for any American, Korean, or Chinese piano (and it's probably more than can be said of some German pianos as well).
That's a big exaggeration IMO. A more reasonable statement is that it may be easier to get your piano sounding more like the ones in the showroom than if you bought a piano from the other countries.

As far as sounding "just like" the ones in the showroom, that may not be possible even for a Yamaha since all pianos vary a little.


Well, we disagree. I'm assuming from the strong comment you made that you've already played several new Yamahas of the same model and found them to sound quite differently from each other. So have I!!!! For example, a C2 nuzzled into a corner of a small space in Santa Monica sounded twice as big as a C2 in the middle of a big showroom in San Francisco. BUT (and it's a big "but"), if you think about it, I bet you'll admit when they sounded different the acoustics were different. The C2s I played in S.F. and here in Portland were in similar acoustic surroundings. They sounded identical to each other, as best my ear could tell--and this has always been my experience with Yammy's, and of course they have that reputation, supported by the fact that they're mostly assembled by robots and not people.

If you were to play 2 new (gotta be new) Yamahas of the same model regulated by the same tech in the same acoustic location and you were blindfolded, the chance you could tell them apart would be small and the chance you'd really have a strong preference for one over the other trivial. This extraordinary quality control is the reason Larry Fine has made a point of how remarkable the ready-to-play-out-of-the-box nature of Yamaha (and Kawai) are versus other pianos.

My dealer sells mostly pianos better than Yamaha (M&H, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Walter, etc.). When I went to special order my Yamaha (because silent pianos are not kept in stock, so I was stuck buying something I couldn't play ahead of time), the dealer, who has an excellent reputation, told me they would have strongly discouraged me from buying anything I hadn't played on beforehand, Yamaha being the ONLY exception. (They don't sell Kawai, I should note.)

If you're talking about used instruments that have been played on for some time, of course that's admittedly a whole other story.
Yamahas can be voiced differently like any other piano. Until a tech listens to the OP's piano and the one in the showroom he liked better, there is no way of knowing if his liking the showroom piano better is a result of the prep of that piano, the lack of prep for the piano he got, or some combination of these.

Consistency out of the box is not the same being able to make them sound exactly the same. It means that unless an unusual voicing was done to the piano in the showroom it will probably be easier to make two sound similar because they will sound similar to begin with.

The more expensive pianos you named are not voiced at the factory or dealership with the intention of making them sound exactly the same. Dealers, if they have more than one of a given make and model, typically voice them differently so that customers have a choice. This does not mean they can't be made to sound the same.

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Hi Nillabean,
Congrats on your purchase. Please keep in mind that all factory regulation is "roughed in" and needs adjusting after uncrating as well as tuning and tone regulation. The Silent pianos are not regulated exactly like the non-silent pianos. You need a tech that knows how to regulate such an instrument and will be thorough. Out of the box Yamaha's are nice but well prepped they are wonderful, IMO.
Good luck!


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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Yamahas can be voiced differently like any other piano.


Can a Yamaha dealer chime in here to provid us with information to help clariyf this issue?

Repeatedly one hears that Yamaha's are checked out of the box for regulation specs by good dealers, often needing surprisingly little adjustment. I had NOT previously heard that Yamaha dealers routinely do post-factory voicing in situations where no buyer or potential buyer has yet requested special voicing. If pianoloverus is right, it means Yamahas DO routinely get voiced--not simply checked to see if the factory voicing is even and where it should be. Is that so? (If it is, then of course I'm left scratching my head about why the new Yammies I've played in related acoustic settings have all pretty much sounded the same if they're the same model.)

Thanks in advance if Chris Venables or Jeff in Santa Monica or some other Yamaha dealer can solve this puzzle for me.

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Originally Posted by nillabean
. . . I honestly view the silent feature as simply the greatest way to be able to practice after hours--making the acoustic playing time that much more satisfying (and more quality due to the extra practice).


'Couldn't have said it better myself!

Originally Posted by nillabean
. . . I could hear my neighbors hanging out in the living room next to me and didn't want them to hear (nor me feel self conscious about) the repetitive practicing I was engaged in.


Precisely the same for me.

Originally Posted by nillabean
I . . . experienced the drastic difference between digital and acoustic. . . Its just a different experience completely, and one that is there as a tool to practice--not perform. The greatest thing about it being that you get to use the same great action and keys on your amazing hybrid instrument. People who recommend getting an electric keyboard to play after hours--no thanks.


PW people seem quite split on whether a top end digital sampling a skillion dollar 9-foot grand (viz., the AvantGrand) beats an affordable acoustic or not. To my ears the acoustic is a piano with a soul, while the digital is at best a decent recording of a piano (that has a robotic quality to it).


Originally Posted by nillabean
Anyway, I seriously doubt the fuzziness is anything wrong with your piano.


After my experience with the Disklavier and your comments I'm convinced you're right.

Originally Posted by nillabean
What the speakers are good for, btw, is playing afterhours at a low volume, without having to use headphones--like if you have company for example and are messing around. I was amazed at how good a couple of powered speakers sounded sitting on top of the piano--especially with the other sounds.


When it's uncool to play the real thing for guests (e.g., too late at night), I simply won't play. I figure they can come back some other time (-:

Originally Posted by nillabean
Have you tried the other instruments yet? Electric piano, organ, etc.?


I'm embarrassed to say no. I admit to being a Luddite, but in addition, it's the sound of a piano I'm looking for, so frankly I don't know if I'll ever take out the book and figure out how to sound like a Hammond B3 organ.

Thanks again, nillabean. Your comments have allowed me to drop the elusive search for an answer to my not-so-important question and move on, playing the real piano whenever I can. Enjoy your new YUS5SG, especially when the minor bugs get sorted as they certainly can be! They're terrific uprights in my view.

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Good dealers prep their pianos.
1. String seating on the bridges.
2. String leveling to the hammers.
3. Regulation of the keys-lost-motion, let-off, checking, etc.
4. Tune in store!
5. Minor voicing to even tone and sound.

Good manufacturers actually compensate dealers to do this. Which sound odd, when you think about it, but is the norm. Yamaha is not alone in offering what amounts to an hour+ of tech-time with each piano.

A dealer who sells a piano, and then uncrates it in your driveway is NOT being reasonable or offering the best service to his clients. Things change in a new piano. Felts, wood, leather/buckskin, keyfelts/bushings, are both temperature and moisture sensitive; the shift in climate between Japan and the USA can create significant differences as your piano adjusts to the new 'micro-climate' in your home. A dealer suggesting that a new piano will be just fine..perfect even...after shipping halfway around the world has a different concept of perfect than you and me!

Tune your piano, with the freebie, about 3 to 4 weeks after delivery. If the tech does well, answers your questions, and relieves your concerns; stick with him/her! If this is yet another 'cheapie' offered by the dealer from the tooner-guy who charges the least (...likely, from your unbox-story), then you'll want a different tech in future. Don't try to reserve the 'freebie' for the future; many dealers insist that you use the 'freebie' within a certain time frame, 3 to 6 months, and you may lose the chance to get something back from your dealer.

All said; you bought a dandy piano! The fact that it plays well, and sounds pretty good to you is a testament to the high standards and quality materials of the manufacturer.

Enjoy!

Another armchair quarterback,
Technically speaking,
I am,


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I think you should see what you get from the dealer, and if it is not sufficient, ask for more.


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Originally Posted by jivemutha
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Yamahas can be voiced differently like any other piano.


Can a Yamaha dealer chime in here to provid us with information to help clariyf this issue?

Repeatedly one hears that Yamaha's are checked out of the box for regulation specs by good dealers, often needing surprisingly little adjustment. I had NOT previously heard that Yamaha dealers routinely do post-factory voicing in situations where no buyer or potential buyer has yet requested special voicing. If pianoloverus is right, it means Yamahas DO routinely get voiced--not simply checked to see if the factory voicing is even and where it should be. Is that so? (If it is, then of course I'm left scratching my head about why the new Yammies I've played in related acoustic settings have all pretty much sounded the same if they're the same model.)

Thanks in advance if Chris Venables or Jeff in Santa Monica or some other Yamaha dealer can solve this puzzle for me.
Read the post by a Yamaha dealer above your post. Of course, I'd assume some Yamaha dealers(like dealers of any other make) do less voicing than others and some do little or no voicing.

BTW I didn't say that dealers regularly voice Yamaha pianos for the showroom floor. I said Yamahas can be voiced in different ways (just like any other make can be voiced differently). Unless you think voicing can't affect the sound at all, I don't think there's anything to "clarify".

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Prep? If you ask 15 different dealers, you’ll get 15 different answers. It just depends on what their play is. In the bay area a fairly large segment of piano buyers want a Japanese piano delivered in the box.

So, the dealers give the customer what they want. Dealers around here don’t do a lot of prep on new Japanese pianos. The pianos are voiced differently at the factory, some bright, some not so. Still, I’ve never heard any two sound alike, besides tonal similarities inherent in the design. And I have heard YUS5’s voiced very bright from the factory. I’m not sure where people get the idea all yamahas sound the same out of the box. Most of them are ready to play out of the box. There is a difference. But then so are Walters, Bosendorfers and a number of other pianos.

Remember the two most important phrases when dealing with pianos are “it depends” and “we’ll see.”

The extent of preparation is a business decision not a moral one. There is no "good" or "bad". And there are no free tunings, you’ve paid for it. You don’t leave a piano dealer with gifts. The guy shows up for your “free” tuning, if he’s independent, likely as not will not get paid his full fee by the dealer, hoping to pick up extra business. It’s a business contact. Do I need to a hear a pitch from a tuner? No. Some of these guys are worse than door to door bible salesmen. If the tuner is working for the dealer he’s not getting paid as much either because the dealer has to dip his beak.

Having said that I don’t know any dealer around here who won’t prep a piano to the customers satisfaction. But your own tuner can do it cheaper in your home as long as you don’t charge him rent or a parking fee.

In this case, I’d let the dealer finish his play. Pianos are a work in progress, all of them. And you might find a connection with the tuner that shows up. Stranger things have happened. Remember, it depends.

Mike

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Pianoloverus is right of course that Yamahas can be voiced differently (including meaning a good tech can change the tone totally from very bright to very soft, or vice versa). Some dealers do just this as a selling point, sometimes to tone the piano to take into account the acoustic of the customer's room, or because the customer invariably wants the tone mellower, as well as the dealer wanting to ensure his showroom stock is as sweet as it can be.

I agree with Mike, Yamahas of the same model, irrespective of the series (budget, mid or high end) do vary despite their high build quality. Yamaha have an army of toners at their factories and despite instructions on their adhering to the Yamaha signature sound of 'clarity' no two techs have the same ears or ideals on the optimum sound for each piano.

Unfortunately, Yamahas are often considered as a commodity more than a musical instrument because of their reputation for coming out-of-the-box in good order, (although I've had a few lately that have needed more than a good day's regulating, but build quality is still the tops). Hence the fashion in some places for saving cash and taking the piano boxed. If, as nillabean said earlier, Yamaha US aren't happy with dealers supplying customers with boxed pianos, they could do what Yamaha Europe do and deliver to dealers unboxed. I fully agree with Tuner Jeff (always a good post) don't buy boxed - insist on playing the one in their store that they're delivering to you. If you're worried that someone's going to beat seven bells out of it or burn out the electrics before it's delivered to you, get the dealer to seal it up in front of you once you've bought it.


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Originally Posted by pianoloverus

I didn't say that dealers regularly voice Yamaha pianos for the showroom floor.


If they don't regularly get voiced much at the dealer, that fits with what I have been hearing. Comments by others above, however, suggest that the voicing done in Hamamatsu, despite attempts at getting a uniform sound, don't always produce evenness despite the great similarity in sound I've experienced.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I said Yamahas can be voiced in different ways (just like any other make can be voiced differently).


Of course--that goes without saying. However that's essentially what we might call custom work that's unrelated to what we hear when we play pianos at the dealership that have NOT been voiced to suite a customer but rather have been given the generic sound that (in this case) Yamaha is shooting for at the factory.

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Originally Posted by jivemutha
Originally Posted by pianoloverus

I didn't say that dealers regularly voice Yamaha pianos for the showroom floor.


If they don't regularly get voiced much at the dealer, that fits with what I have been hearing. Comments by others above, however, suggest that the voicing done in Hamamatsu, despite attempts at getting a uniform sound, don't always produce evenness despite the great similarity in sound I've experienced.
Frankly, you really need to read my posts and the posts of the other dealers more carefully. I didn't say that dealers regularly voice Yamaha pianos for the showroom floor and neither did I say the they did.

Originally Posted by jivemutha
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I said Yamahas can be voiced in different ways (just like any other make can be voiced differently).
Of course--that goes without saying. However that's essentially what we might call custom work that's unrelated to what we hear when we play pianos at the dealership that have NOT been voiced to suite a customer but rather have been given the generic sound that (in this case) Yamaha is shooting for at the factory.
One of the Yamaha dealers just told you that some dealers regularly voice two of the same models differently to give customers a choice. This is not considered custom work(which is when a customer asks that a piano already on the floor be voiced differently or a piano that has not had any prep yet be voiced to their liking). He also said that even without voicing they can sound different when delivered from the factory for a variety of reasons.

Your comments about all Yamahas sounding the same(with or without prep) and the inability of pianos from other makers to be made to sound similar is incorrect. Every post by dealers has verified what I said (and not what you said). Until a tech listens to the OP's piano and the one in the showroom he liked more, no one can know why he prefers one of them.

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Originally Posted by TunerJeff
Good dealers prep their pianos.
1. String seating on the bridges.
2. String leveling to the hammers.
3. Regulation of the keys-lost-motion, let-off, checking, etc.
4. Tune in store!
5. Minor voicing to even tone and sound.

Good manufacturers actually compensate dealers to do this. Which sound odd, when you think about it, but is the norm. Yamaha is not alone in offering what amounts to an hour+ of tech-time with each piano.

A dealer who sells a piano, and then uncrates it in your driveway is NOT being reasonable or offering the best service to his clients. Things change in a new piano. Felts, wood, leather/buckskin, keyfelts/bushings, are both temperature and moisture sensitive; the shift in climate between Japan and the USA can create significant differences as your piano adjusts to the new 'micro-climate' in your home. A dealer suggesting that a new piano will be just fine..perfect even...after shipping halfway around the world has a different concept of perfect than you and me!

Tune your piano, with the freebie, about 3 to 4 weeks after delivery. If the tech does well, answers your questions, and relieves your concerns; stick with him/her! If this is yet another 'cheapie' offered by the dealer from the tooner-guy who charges the least (...likely, from your unbox-story), then you'll want a different tech in future. Don't try to reserve the 'freebie' for the future; many dealers insist that you use the 'freebie' within a certain time frame, 3 to 6 months, and you may lose the chance to get something back from your dealer.

All said; you bought a dandy piano! The fact that it plays well, and sounds pretty good to you is a testament to the high standards and quality materials of the manufacturer.

Enjoy!

Another armchair quarterback,
Technically speaking,
I am,


Tuner Jeff,
Thank you So much! This is a very helpful beginning point for me to understand that type of "prep" that should be performed. Gives me some language to use with the tech. And my gut feeling is that you are completely right about the changing climate from Japan to US and then my living room. I plan to have the free tuning soon--yikes I don't know if I can wait a whole 3-4 weeks! I am enjoying my piano but can tell it needs adjustment. But, I will keep banging on it and really get my money's worth on the tune. I did some research on the tuner that I have a credit for and here's his qualifications:

I graduated with an Advanced Degree in Piano Technology from the North Bennet Street School in Boston...During my 18 months of comprehensive schooling I learned musical acoustics, aural tuning procedures and practice, piano maintenance, upright and grand regulation, pin block replacement, veneer repairs, soundboard repairs and replacement, bridge capping, rescaling, action renovation, as well as learning how to properly use hand tools and woodworking machinery...I am a Registered Piano Technician (RPT) in the Piano Technicians Guild. I’m always continuing to learn and grow as a technician by attending local, state, and nationwide PTG conventions. I have also received a certificate from Yamaha’s Little Red School House, which is considered to be one of the piano industry’s finest internal training.

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Originally Posted by Mike Carr
Prep? If you ask 15 different dealers, you’ll get 15 different answers. It just depends on what their play is. In the bay area a fairly large segment of piano buyers want a Japanese piano delivered in the box.

So, the dealers give the customer what they want. Dealers around here don’t do a lot of prep on new Japanese pianos. The pianos are voiced differently at the factory, some bright, some not so. Still, I’ve never heard any two sound alike, besides tonal similarities inherent in the design. And I have heard YUS5’s voiced very bright from the factory. I’m not sure where people get the idea all yamahas sound the same out of the box. Most of them are ready to play out of the box. There is a difference. But then so are Walters, Bosendorfers and a number of other pianos.

Remember the two most important phrases when dealing with pianos are “it depends” and “we’ll see.”

The extent of preparation is a business decision not a moral one. There is no "good" or "bad". And there are no free tunings, you’ve paid for it. You don’t leave a piano dealer with gifts. The guy shows up for your “free” tuning, if he’s independent, likely as not will not get paid his full fee by the dealer, hoping to pick up extra business. It’s a business contact. Do I need to a hear a pitch from a tuner? No. Some of these guys are worse than door to door bible salesmen. If the tuner is working for the dealer he’s not getting paid as much either because the dealer has to dip his beak.

Having said that I don’t know any dealer around here who won’t prep a piano to the customers satisfaction. But your own tuner can do it cheaper in your home as long as you don’t charge him rent or a parking fee.

In this case, I’d let the dealer finish his play. Pianos are a work in progress, all of them. And you might find a connection with the tuner that shows up. Stranger things have happened. Remember, it depends.

Mike



Thanks Chris,
That all makes a lot of sense. All in all I feel like it should be left to the customer if they want to deal with a piano out of the box--it sounds like it may be worth it if you get a really good deal on the piano and spend some of those savings on having the piano worked on to your satisfaction. I just wish the dealers were more upfront about this. I certainly got the piano faster this way, and have had a chance to hear it in its rawest form, assuming it can only improve at this point. I just wish the dealer hadn't assured me that no prep was necessary with Yamahas. Because as you stated, it depends, and we'll see.

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Originally Posted by jivemutha
PW people seem quite split on whether a top end digital sampling a skillion dollar 9-foot grand (viz., the AvantGrand) beats an affordable acoustic or not. To my ears the acoustic is a piano with a soul, while the digital is at best a decent recording of a piano (that has a robotic quality to it).


I agree--my friend, who is a very accomplished classical pianist--bought a brand new n2 (right below the avantgrand) for 10k, and I just don't understand why someone would pay that much for a non-acoustic! Especially with the technology of the Silent system. I admit that the first time I played it, I could barely tell a difference between an acoustic and this piano. The 400watt 20-speaker (or whatever it is) system was incredible, he;s got the ivorite just like me, real hammer action, etc., etc., but it is NOT an acoustic percussive string instrument, and to me, that is sad. Ironically he plays it full volume in his condo anyway...
A piano is a living, breathing creature IMO, and it just cannot be replaced (though yamaha is about as close as you can get!)


Originally Posted by nillabean
Have you tried the other instruments yet? Electric piano, organ, etc.?


Originally Posted by jivemutha
I'm embarrassed to say no. I admit to being a Luddite, but in addition, it's the sound of a piano I'm looking for, so frankly I don't know if I'll ever take out the book and figure out how to sound like a Hammond B3 organ.


It's so easy! You owe it to yourself to try it one of these headphone-wearing evenings. Simply hold down the first 3 keys on the keyboard and then select sound by pressing one of the 18 (or so) keys starting at the C after middle C, and continuing up the keyboard for additional sounds. It's quite simple. Hold down the first 3 keys on the keyboard and hit the C above middle C again to get back to regular piano.

Originally Posted by jivemutha
Thanks again, nillabean. Your comments have allowed me to drop the elusive search for an answer to my not-so-important question and move on, playing the real piano whenever I can. Enjoy your new YUS5SG, especially when the minor bugs get sorted as they certainly can be! They're terrific uprights in my view.


I'm glad I could help you feel better about playing digital. All the feedback you and the other users have given me has been extremely helpful and enabled me to feel excited and knowledgeable as a new piano owner, rather than unsure and worried.

Last edited by nillabean; 06/15/12 12:36 PM.
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Originally Posted by Scott Schroeter
Hi Nillabean,
Congrats on your purchase. Please keep in mind that all factory regulation is "roughed in" and needs adjusting after uncrating as well as tuning and tone regulation. The Silent pianos are not regulated exactly like the non-silent pianos. You need a tech that knows how to regulate such an instrument and will be thorough. Out of the box Yamaha's are nice but well prepped they are wonderful, IMO.
Good luck!


Are you sure that Silent pianos require different prep? Its the first I have heard of this. I included this question in my email to Yamaha customer Service for clarification. My understanding was that the Silent system does not interfere in anyway with the acoustic mechanics of the piano. I would assume there are some additional items that could be added to the checklist in order to ensure that the electronics, optics of the Silent system are in good position/shape, but wouldn't the actual prep for the acoustical elements be essentially the same?
I guess my concern is simply whether I need to make sure the tech I choose has experience/training working with a Silent System.
Either way I love your comment about yamahas being good out of the box, and wonderful once well-prepped. I can't wait to draw that "wonderfulness" out of my new sexy beast.

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Hi Nillabean,
Sorry. It just occurred to me that Yamaha's silent system has a letoff compensation rail meaning there is a second jack toe that is tripped by a rail that drops down and takes the place of the regular letoff button when the system is engaged. Still, check the letoff in both acoustic and silent modes.


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Nillabean,

First, congratulations on your new piano. You've gotten excellent advice so far. IMHO, every piano really should be fully prepped before it's sold. Yamaha and Kawaii pianos do have a reputation for being very consistent but still they really need a complete prep to sound and play their best. Another piece of good news is that the dealer from which I bought my Yamaha, waits a few days with the piano out of the box before it's prepped, so in your case, your Yamaha is perfectly ready to be prepped.
One of the other considerations, according to my tech, is that pianos that have sat on the showroom floor for a while have settled in and tend to have fewer adjustment issues when they're delivered to their new homes. So, your new piano wasn't prepped and has only been out of the box a short time. So it's sound and action will improve as it settles in and will sound and play better after it's prepped. If the dealer won't send a tech to prep it, get it done by a professional, and maybe later you can use the free tuning.

Best wishes and post some pictures.


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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Frankly, you really need to read my posts and the posts of the other dealers more carefully. I didn't say that dealers regularly voice Yamaha pianos for the showroom floor and neither did I say the they did. . . .


We're not communicating. No one said you had claimed that dealers regularly voice the Yamahas, nor did anyone say for sure they did not do voicing. As several rounds have gotten only more tangled rather than untangled, I'll leave this discussion now except to note what I think I've learned from it:

1. Voicing on the floor before a buyer is found IS done, but it is not always done, nor is it always done to the same extent. (Of course voicing does change the sound of any piano and can make any two of the same model pianos sound very differently regardless of the brand--that was never in question.)

2. The factory apparently (see one poster's note above) does try to achieve an even sound from instrument to instrument.

3. This attempt apparently is imperfect, and to the ears of some the Yamahas apparently do sound noticeably differently from instrument to instrument (though to my ears, compared with differences in many other makes, I admit that I generally don't hear it.)

4. Because the issue of voicing is so varied, it's probably best (in my mind, anyway) to segregate it out from any discussion regarding uniform quality control issues.

5. Unless we're again not communicating, I do not recall your comments as directly disagreeing with the commonly found comments in PW and elsewhere re Kawai and Yamaha in terms of uniformity involving quality control, sticky issue of voicing not included in that comment.

OK. I'm outta here (-:

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Originally Posted by jivemutha
We're not communicating. No one said you had claimed that dealers regularly voice the Yamahas...

You said:"If pianoloverus is right, it means Yamahas DO routinely get voiced--not simply checked to see if the factory voicing is even and where it should be."

And I was "right" as you can read in the dealer posts answering the questions in this post you made. You not only misunderstood the situation with Yamaha and what I said, you also misunderstood your own words.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/15/12 05:53 PM.
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