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I am the proud new owner of a Yamaha YUS5SG as of last Saturday.

The piano was taken from this large SF Bay Area Yamaha Dealer's warehouse and literally unboxed right outside my door.

My first impression was that it just didn't sound as good as the 2 I played at other stores (both had already been sold). I felt so lucky being able to have one delivered to me shortly after purchase, but now I am questioning whether it is better to buy from the showroom floor.

The dealer assured me that Yamaha's have the most consistent and reliable manufacturing techniques with their pianos, and that they don't need to be prepped before or at delivery to the customer's house. But my research on this forum tells me otherwise--that ALL pianos require proper preparation in order to play at their potential.

Though this is my first piano I've owned, I have been playing for 30 years and can tell its a bit off. I have a free tuning, of course, but am told to wait 4-6 weeks for the strings to stretch, piano to settle, etc. I don't want to waste it on doing something that the dealer should have done on a $15,000 piano. But I think they felt I was getting a really good deal, and was lucky to grab the last one in stock.

Besides, I don't think I understand what preparation really entails, and how will I even know if a Yamaha tech/tuner does all the possible things to bring out the best sound from my new instrument?

This was the biggest investment (next to my car) that I've ever made, and I want the most out of it. Before I go to the dealer and demand they send a technician to my house, I wanted to get some feedback from this community.

Thanks

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Clearly it is better to buy a piano that you have actually played, and no doubt the two pianos that you did play were in more refined condition than this slightly raw product now in your home. You'll get good advice from others here, but you bought from a dealer who is just out to move product, so when they do send someone out in 4-6 weeks you won't get more than a tuning and any basic needed repairs (a stuck note, for example).

My advice is to hire an independent technician now, and be done with this dealer. Forget about your free tuning and move on. Pay for an informational service call from someone who cares, and now begin to turn this piano into a fine instrument - no doubt it can become one rather easily. This might cost you $200-$500 and a couple of visits over the next month or two.

Congratulations on the purchase in any case!

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Did you get this from the dealer on Van Ness in the city?

Please don't panic. True, if the dealer did no prep then even a Yamaha will be a bit rough literally out of the crate. That said, it CAN be made to sound just like the 2 you played except for one significant difference: the difference between the acoustics in your home vs. the dealership. That's more than can be said for any American, Korean, or Chinese piano (and it's probably more than can be said of some German pianos as well).

YUS5SG is a great upright for that price and if you do have to take a few hundred bucks out of your pocket for regulation you will still have gotten a terrific deal.

QUESTION: When you listen through the headphones, focus on the difference in sound between playing isolated lines versus multiple-note chords. Does the sound of the latter lack some of the clarity of the former? I'm currently trying to sort this out in my new silent Yamaha and while our models are different (C2SG for me), the digital components are purportedly identical. Thus your answer to this question may be of real use to me in sorting this one out. Also, if you have the same problem I'm having (a little fuzziness with multiple-note chords through the headphones that absolutely does not occur when playing isolated lines) then perhaps I'll be able to tell you a few things that WON'T solve the problem to save you the trouble. Thanks.

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I just bought a brand new Yamaha YUS5 a few months ago.

At the dealer I was going back and forth between the YUS5 and a Yamaha U3. I thought the YUS5 had a "dull" bass heavy sound. The Yamaha U3 did NOT have the typical old reputation bright sound.

I had a fantastic piano tech from this forum come up to work on my Kawai K3. He took a look and played the Yamaha YUS5. The dealer had put a lot of prep wotk into it. He said it was fine.

I would talk to the dealer about getting a tech out there. I agree with the other posters about bringing your instrument up to par with the other YUS5 you played. If worse comes to worse...get your own independent tech. It's a great feeling knowing a pro will tell you everything with no other interests to the dealer. Absolutely worth the money.

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Peter:
I appreciate the feedback...and agree that finding a good tech to work on my piano is well worth the additional investment. But wouldn't it still be worth it to have the free tuning? I could then talk to this person and see what they think--maybe I can even get them to do a little more? If not, at least I got a regular tuning out of it...?

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jivemutha,
Thanks, not panicking...Yes, it was from the Van Ness store in SF, lol. They had one on the storeroom floor, but it had already been sold. Although one thing that appeals to me about the new in box scenario is that I know people weren't messing with the Silent System on a showroom floor. I swear that the lever you pull to engage the silent was a little looser on the showroom floor model. Mine is nice and tight--I like knowing that my electronics haven't been touched by tire kickers.

I did get a great deal on the piano as I took my time and haggled between a few stores. So I am comfortable spending some more time/money to get the piano properly tuned, regulated, and voiced. I've been playing as much as possible since I got it, and though I do notice some room acoustic differences,the piano is clearly a bit out of tune and a bit rough in other ways that I can't really put a finger on yet. But ultimately I still love it and am looking forward to the "fine tuning" I will have over the years.

I will keep experimenting with listening for the issue you speak of, but as of now, I haven't noticed anything along those lines.

How long should I wait to have a tech come to my place? Should I use the free tune now, to get it at least in tune in my living room? I've been trying to play pretty hard on it to stretch the strings, and see if i notice anything I don't like. I've discovered a couple notes that seem a bit harsh, and I just wonder if I should keep playing hard on it before I have anyone come out.

Anyway to get tech recommendations on this forum for San Francisco?

Thanks

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Rafterman,
I find the bass on my new YUS5 to actually be pretty awesome. Its more the middle register that I notice some issues with. How do you know what work was done by the dealer on your YUS? How is it now that its broken in? I have a tech that lives a bit far away, and though I think he's pretty good, (and he's cheap) I feel like I want a real Yamaha specialist. I don't know if I want to get recommendations from the dealer...
It seems living in SF, there should be a lot of really good techs out here. And I've been monitoring the temperature and humidity in the location my piano sits, and its very consistent and within the recommended numbers.

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Originally Posted by jivemutha
True, if the dealer did no prep then even a Yamaha will be a bit rough literally out of the crate. That said, it CAN be made to sound just like the 2 you played except for one significant difference: the difference between the acoustics in your home vs. the dealership. That's more than can be said for any American, Korean, or Chinese piano (and it's probably more than can be said of some German pianos as well).
That's a big exaggeration IMO. A more reasonable statement is that it may be easier to get your piano sounding more like the ones in the showroom than if you bought a piano from the other countries.

As far as sounding "just like" the ones in the showroom, that may not be possible even for a Yamaha since all pianos vary a little.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by jivemutha
True, if the dealer did no prep then even a Yamaha will be a bit rough literally out of the crate. That said, it CAN be made to sound just like the 2 you played except for one significant difference: the difference between the acoustics in your home vs. the dealership. That's more than can be said for any American, Korean, or Chinese piano (and it's probably more than can be said of some German pianos as well).
That's a big exaggeration IMO. A more reasonable statement is that it may be easier to get your piano sounding more like the ones in the showroom than if you bought a piano from the other countries.

As far as sounding "just like" the ones in the showroom, that may not be possible even for a Yamaha since all pianos vary a little.


Well, we disagree. I'm assuming from the strong comment you made that you've already played several new Yamahas of the same model and found them to sound quite differently from each other. So have I!!!! For example, a C2 nuzzled into a corner of a small space in Santa Monica sounded twice as big as a C2 in the middle of a big showroom in San Francisco. BUT (and it's a big "but"), if you think about it, I bet you'll admit when they sounded different the acoustics were different. The C2s I played in S.F. and here in Portland were in similar acoustic surroundings. They sounded identical to each other, as best my ear could tell--and this has always been my experience with Yammy's, and of course they have that reputation, supported by the fact that they're mostly assembled by robots and not people.

If you were to play 2 new (gotta be new) Yamahas of the same model regulated by the same tech in the same acoustic location and you were blindfolded, the chance you could tell them apart would be small and the chance you'd really have a strong preference for one over the other trivial. This extraordinary quality control is the reason Larry Fine has made a point of how remarkable the ready-to-play-out-of-the-box nature of Yamaha (and Kawai) are versus other pianos.

My dealer sells mostly pianos better than Yamaha (M&H, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Walter, etc.). When I went to special order my Yamaha (because silent pianos are not kept in stock, so I was stuck buying something I couldn't play ahead of time), the dealer, who has an excellent reputation, told me they would have strongly discouraged me from buying anything I hadn't played on beforehand, Yamaha being the ONLY exception. (They don't sell Kawai, I should note.)

If you're talking about used instruments that have been played on for some time, of course that's admittedly a whole other story.

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I wrote Yamaha because I was curious what their response would be. Here's what I got back today:

"Thank you for your inquiry and I am sorry you are having disappointments already with your new piano. The one unfortunate aspect about this is that we really can’t tell the dealers how to conduct their business. We don’t like and discourage the delivery of pianos in their boxes and we wish the dealer would unbox and prep the pianos at their stores before delivery. But, this continues.

I assume by your address your dealer was xxxxx xxxxxxxx. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Have you contacted the dealer with your concerns? At this point that is what you need to do. Maybe they are waiting for your first tuning. Was a tuning included in the sales agreement?

If you like I’d be happy to put in a word with them but I’ll need to know who it is and the serial number of your piano.

You purchased our finest upright piano and deserve to be happy with it."

Last edited by nillabean; 06/13/12 05:06 PM.
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I have to tell you after the first tuning and a little tweaking you might be very surprised. I had my Yamaha YUS5 tuned to A= 441. It seemed to give it a slighty brighter sound. It was a day and night moment.

I also temperature control my house where my instruments are. I keep the temp to 72 degrees year round. I use a humdifier in the winter and a de-humdifier in the summer. I keep the humidity at around 47% to 50% all year.

I bet once you get it tuned again and it stabilizes to your home emvironment there will be a significant change.

On an unrelated note when I got my Kawai K8 delivered and my piano tech came......I was shocked by how much packing junk was still in the piano....styrofoam, paperwork, tags, etc.

Get some prep work and join the Yamaha YUS5 kicks upright ass club!

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Originally Posted by Rafterman
Get some prep work and join the Yamaha YUS5 kicks upright ass club!


Yep. Short of spending near-obscene money (for an upright) on something like a K52 Steinway, etc., the YUS5 produces a very sophisticated delightful sound (at least to my ear) that's a far cry from all the old "too bright" complaints waged against earlier U series Yammies. Once you get it sorted I bet you'll love it! (Also, those Ivorite keys don't make it sound any better but they sure make you feel like you're playing on a grown-up's piano!)

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Originally Posted by Peter K. Mose
Clearly it is better to buy a piano that you have actually played, and no doubt the two pianos that you did play were in more refined condition than this slightly raw product now in your home. You'll get good advice from others here, but you bought from a dealer who is just out to move product, so when they do send someone out in 4-6 weeks you won't get more than a tuning and any basic needed repairs (a stuck note, for example).

My advice is to hire an independent technician now, and be done with this dealer. Forget about your free tuning and move on. Pay for an informational service call from someone who cares, and now begin to turn this piano into a fine instrument - no doubt it can become one rather easily. This might cost you $200-$500 and a couple of visits over the next month or two.

Congratulations on the purchase in any case!


Peter's advice is spot on. The 'free' tuning will be a contract tuning from the low bidder for the job. Chances are, it will be worth every penny. You will need a good tech to maintain the piano for a long time, and the best time to start the relationship is now. The dealer can pay your tech the fee that they pay and you can pay the rest of the fee. If there are any deficiencies, the tech can contact Yamaha for guidance.

Take care,

Steve

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Rafterman,
Really good to hear...you really recommend A441? I don't feel like I need it to be brighter necessarily. As I've been banging on it for the last 5 days I am definitely noticing that its getting even more out of tune. I especially noticed this when I was practicing a section of a song on silent last night, then removed the headphones and played acoustically--Whoa!! A few keys were really noticeable. I guess ultimately that's good--I suppose it means that it at least partially explains why I was feeling this piano doesn't sound great yet, and it means that I am successfully stretching my strings (I love to play hard.)

I've also been experimenting with acoustics: I moved the piano away from the wall a bit more, put two large acoustic foam panels on the wall, moved the piano more towards the center of the room... I feel like the piano is quite loud, though it is possible to play quietly as well (so maybe its just me).

AS far as temperature and humidity control, I have been using a hygrometer to monitor humidity and temperature and my front living room stays pretty consistent, being that I am in SF and that room doesn't get much fluctuation from sunlight, drafts, or heating. Not sure how it will be in the winter, esp rainy days, but for now I am maintaining 40-50% humidity and about 65-75 degrees temp fairly easily. I do notice that my living smells of new piano smile

The movers, when delivering the piano did open everything up, and remove all packing material--I frankly was surprised how little there was--I really expected more stabilizing materials--but they told me because an upright is never placed anyway but upright while be shipped, it remains stable and needs no precautionary packing materials.

I am thinking to just have the free tune sooner than later, then do another tune a few months after that. This is a kick ass piano---it calls to me as I walk by it...and the silent feature is amazing...especially when I can practice something repeatedly, then take it off silent and play the song much better (for my neighbors, as they can hear my piano as though its in their living room as well.)

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Steve,
Thanks for the feedback. Are you saying I should use the free tuning certificate and see if I like the person (I have his name already) and be prepared to offer more money to do more work? Or are you guys really recommending not even bothering with this free tuning and start from scratch with an out of pocket quality tech? Or are you saying that the dealer may be able to may the small fee for tuning to a tuner of my selection, and then I pay the rest?
I definitely want to find a form a relationship with a good tech that I will use for years to come, but I may as well get a remedial tune from a supposed Yamaha tech, and find out if he wants or can do any extra work. Who knows, maybe I will like him.
Thanks

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jivemutha,
Thanks for the positive feedback!
I already love the piano, and am not too worried. I just keep assuring my gf (who is a singer I play with) that this is the worst this piano will ever sound...she knows what a big investment it was, and as a singer, she notices that something is a bit off with it (tuning, for sure).
But now, with all the feedback from here, I am actually excited about how much better I can get this thing to sound--because even at it is, I really like it.
The more I learn about pianos, the more I am in awe at what amazing living creatures they are.
And yes, the ivorite was a huge selling point for me--after playing with it, and then sitting with a U3, the plasticky feel just didn't seem acceptable for me in the long run. The only direction I can go from here, is 6+foot grand, which may not happen for many years, so for now I will enjoy all the deluxe features of "Yamaha's finest upright piano" grin

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Originally Posted by nillabean
Steve,
Thanks for the feedback. Are you saying I should use the free tuning certificate and see if I like the person (I have his name already) and be prepared to offer more money to do more work? Or are you guys really recommending not even bothering with this free tuning and start from scratch with an out of pocket quality tech? Or are you saying that the dealer may be able to may the small fee for tuning to a tuner of my selection, and then I pay the rest?
I definitely want to find a form a relationship with a good tech that I will use for years to come, but I may as well get a remedial tune from a supposed Yamaha tech, and find out if he wants or can do any extra work. Who knows, maybe I will like him.
Thanks


I would say to find your own tech who is not affiliated with the store and pay him/her. Ask the dealer, or have the tech ask the dealer for the normal fee they pay, and pay the tech their fee on top of that. A dealer who ships in the box usually do not have the best techs.

Take care,

Steve

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Originally Posted by jivemutha
Did you get this from the dealer on Van Ness in the city?

Please don't panic. True, if the dealer did no prep then even a Yamaha will be a bit rough literally out of the crate. That said, it CAN be made to sound just like the 2 you played except for one significant difference: the difference between the acoustics in your home vs. the dealership. That's more than can be said for any American, Korean, or Chinese piano (and it's probably more than can be said of some German pianos as well).

YUS5SG is a great upright for that price and if you do have to take a few hundred bucks out of your pocket for regulation you will still have gotten a terrific deal.

QUESTION: When you listen through the headphones, focus on the difference in sound between playing isolated lines versus multiple-note chords. Does the sound of the latter lack some of the clarity of the former? I'm currently trying to sort this out in my new silent Yamaha and while our models are different (C2SG for me), the digital components are purportedly identical. Thus your answer to this question may be of real use to me in sorting this one out. Also, if you have the same problem I'm having (a little fuzziness with multiple-note chords through the headphones that absolutely does not occur when playing isolated lines) then perhaps I'll be able to tell you a few things that WON'T solve the problem to save you the trouble. Thanks.


Jivemutha,
I experimented last night regarding the digital fuzziness with chords. My question to you is how much time have you spent playing keyboards? I've pretty much only played keyboards the last 25 years and my experience is that there is always some mushiness with multiple notes played--especially through headphones. Are you using the included headphones, or some of your own? I had some really nice ATH-500 Audio Technicas that I thought would sound better than the included Yamaha ones, but actually I ended up liking the Yamaha ones better--mostly because they seemed louder and more clear for piano. Anyway, I feel like I too noticed the fuzziness, but that I accepted it as the limitation to listening to digital piano through headphones. Have you tried hooking up speakers and seeing if you notice it there?

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Originally Posted by nillabean
Jivemutha,
I experimented last night regarding the digital fuzziness with chords. My question to you is how much time have you spent playing keyboards? I've pretty much only played keyboards the last 25 years and my experience is that there is always some mushiness with multiple notes played--especially through headphones. Are you using the included headphones, or some of your own? I had some really nice ATH-500 Audio Technicas that I thought would sound better than the included Yamaha ones, but actually I ended up liking the Yamaha ones better--mostly because they seemed louder and more clear for piano. Anyway, I feel like I too noticed the fuzziness, but that I accepted it as the limitation to listening to digital piano through headphones. Have you tried hooking up speakers and seeing if you notice it there?


First, thank you very much for taking the time to do this bit of detective work on my behalf. Regarding your comments . . .

Initially I tried the Yamaha headphones. That's when I first noticed the problem. PW people recommended that I get fancy expensive headphones. $400 later, I discovered that Sennheiser HD650 phones rated as terrific by all but some of the obsessively complusive audiophile contingent did not get rid of the problem. Then, PW people and the place that fixes my stereo equipment asked if I needed to turn the volume way up when using the fancy headphones. When I answered "yes" they then recommended a headphone amplifier. $50 later, I discovered that also did not get rid of the problem.

I went back to the dealer to play Disklavier Yamahas with the same basic digital specs as your and my "silent" pianos. The same problem occurred.

What PW audio techy people are currently recommending is buying special software for my laptop and running a signal (perhaps from the USB port hidden under the black box hanging under my keyboard) to the laptop and plugging my fancy headphones into the laptop. This would mean having the laptop next to the piano whenever I played through headphones. Yuk!

At least for now, my feeling is the same as yours: I give up. I think the best thing is to accept the limitations of the technology rather than jump through all the hoops needed to conduct the next experiment (the one with the laptop).

I have not tried speakers. If I'm in a position to play without headphones (which in my condo means after 9 a.m., before 9 p.m., and for practical reasons when I'm NOT playing awful repetitive stuff like learning a new voicing in 12 keys) of course I only want to hear the real piano--not the digital. After all, of the whopping $26K I had to pay for the C2SG, all but 3K was for the real thing. Besides, I really dislike the sound of digital pianos--even the AvantGrand--and use headphones only when there's absolutely no other option.

Again, thank you very much! Your comments are helpful and in an odd way reassuring.

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You should do what I did with my Kawai. Get the best Yamaha experienced PGT tech/tuner to do a once over and make any adjustments. Also have him tune it.

Tell the store that you want to defer the free tuning for later for whatever rerason you feel. They will honor that.

I bet you the tech finds something that has been bugging you. The results will put you at ease.

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