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Originally Posted by gvfarns
Originally Posted by pianojohnw
Ive just purchased east west qua quantum leap pianos ive heard some very mixed opinions on it some very good some not very good hoping it is good anyone got any opinions on east west pianos


No one in this forum or the other forum where you started multiple threads asking this question said anything good about EWQL, so I'm not sure where you are perceiving mixed opinions. People were unanimously against it.

But anyway, since you bought it, why don't you play it and then come back and tell us what YOU think, rather than asking for opinions on something you already own, and in a thread about a completely different piano.

You've been basically spamming forums with this question for some time and ignoring responses. I hope you recognize yourself for the annoyance you are.


gvf kicking *ss and taking names...

i woulda thunk pianoteq would have solved the murder mystery by now, but from listening to these demos, colonel mustard's still on the lam. I really applaud pianoteq for the way they doggedly persist developing this idea, but between them and pianoteq i don't think we've yet mathmatically resolved the recreation of piano harmonics.


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Originally Posted by bfb
gvf kicking *ss and taking names...


Lol. More like getting grumpy in my old age. smile

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Originally Posted by gvfarns
Originally Posted by bfb
gvf kicking *ss and taking names...


Lol. More like getting grumpy in my old age. smile


Yes, but in a good way!

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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Jake Johnson
Here's the set of demo recordings using some of the presets:

http://www.pianoteq.com/d4_in_action

After a ~30 second listen: much too bright and the attacks sound somehow synthetic. Make it stop... Who picks this crazy frenetic demo music?


A certainly agree with this.
I have Pianoteq 3 Play, and based on the Pianoteq 4 demos I definitely will not be upgrading.


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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Exactly what is "playability"?


Strange as it may seem, most of us know what this means. wink

Last edited by Glenn NK; 04/20/12 02:17 PM.
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I hear this demo of the new D4 from a PianoTeq owner as sounding good: (But you may need to turn up your volume a bit--it's played softly.)

http://soundcloud.com/keyquest-music/departures-pianoteq-4-version

(Found at KVR: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=347429)

The decay, at first, may seem abrupt here and there, but that changes as the piece goes on. There is no compression, low pass filter, or high pass filter, so it does not sound like a Roland or Yamaha keyboard's default pianos, which often do have these and other effects applied. I do not have any of the Ivory or Galaxy libraries, so I can't make any comparisons.

Granted, I am not an unbiased observer. And I can accept the idea that it may not be the sound that some people want, even if they do not want compression and filters, but I hear this recording as revealing, at the very least, a valid piano sound, and to me, a highly realistic piano.

But I'm not just trying to defend PianoTeq or be argumentative. I'd like to learn what other people hear and think.

Last edited by Jake Johnson; 04/20/12 08:48 AM.
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Originally Posted by Jake Johnson
I hear this demo of the new D4 from a PianoTeq owner as sounding good: (But you may need to turn up your volume a bit--it's played softly.)

http://soundcloud.com/keyquest-music/departures-pianoteq-4-version

It still sounds way too bright and somehow obviously synthetic IMO.

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Sorry but wherever it is they're trying to go, they're nowhere near it yet.


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It's hard to evaluate pianos based on clips. I have heard a few clips from the old PT that hid its deficiencies quite well. It was when I loaded it up and started playing myself that it started to really sound bad to me. Also when we do comparisons with sampled pianos using the same MIDI file the PT shortcomings are very easy to hear.

This clip is by no means displeasing but it does manifest the same problematic characteristics that PT has always had. Specifically, the piano sounds metallic somehow and there is a ringing in the reverb that is not characteristic of a normal room. I was so annoyed with the reverb when I played it that I kept attempting to turn it off or down, but that results in revealing other problems with the timbre that the reverb hides.

I'd be interested to hear a 3 vs. 4 comparison using the same MIDI file to hear whether it is in fact less metallic and ringy or whether they have simply a new piano voice. The fact that they have not gotten rid of the problems I just mentioned in all this time makes me wonder if they don't really consider them problems and instead are improving their product in other dimensions. When the free version comes out I will try it for myself and see how much better it is in real playing.

For now, I tentatively think, as other have in this thread, that PT4 is still PT, apparently with the same problems it has always had.

Last edited by gvfarns; 04/20/12 12:09 PM.
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as i spend some time listening to the Pianoteq 4 demos, i am reminded of the country song:

"It ain't love but it ain't bad"....

they keep moving forward with this product. it is wrong of us just to sh*tcan it flippantly. i used to hate listening to the original version(s), but this could pass for a recorded piano- particularly something recorded in the 40's.

there is certainly more realism here, and its much better than some sample programs i've used/heard in the past




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Originally Posted by bfb
they keep moving forward with this product. it is wrong of us just to sh*tcan it flippantly.

Yes, we should try to be constructive. This is a small company trying to do something incredibly difficult.

Just to put it in context, companies with huge resources have been trying to nail the Leslie (rotating speaker) sound for fifty years. This is a really simple mechanical device that has proved to be amazingly elusive to emulate. The way the sound bounces around the cabinet, how it escapes through the vents, how the top and bottom rotors interact, how the doppler effect is perceived at various distances - all this had to be analyzed and recreated. Now, at long last, a small German company has managed to get within spitting distance of the "correct" sound.

The problem of recreating the piano sound is even more complex. It is not a simple matter of analyzing a waveform over time - otherwise it would have been done. The sound of a piano has essentially four dimensions. It exists almost as a physical object, mutating over time and presenting different "surfaces" to the listener. That is where the magic lies. If Modartt or Roland, or whoever can take those billions of bits of information and stitch them into something that is indistinguishable from the real thing, they will have achieved something immense. Let's encourage them.


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About Leslie -
[offtopic about leslie]
it is part of message Keith Beckingham, one of the famous hammond-organist in the world -
==============================================================
The Concorde was the frirst non tone wheel Hammond but the latest models use digital technology and get very close to the real Hammond sound.
I recently used a modern Hammond - a complete copy of the famous model B-3, made by Hammond Suzuki - and it was very good.
However I am not so impressed with the 'electronic' Leslie.
I met Don Leslie on several occasions in the USA. The whole concept of the Leslie speaker is based upon MOVING sound throught the air.
Yes, the pseudo electronic gizzmos are OK in a small home organ but I have never heard one that I would wish to use in a professional way
On many of my recordings I used TWO Leslie speakers as this provides a broader stereo sound.


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Originally Posted by voxpops
Originally Posted by bfb
they keep moving forward with this product. it is wrong of us just to sh*tcan it flippantly.

Yes, we should try to be constructive. This is a small company trying to do something incredibly difficult.

Just to put it in context, companies with huge resources have been trying to nail the Leslie (rotating speaker) sound for fifty years. This is a really simple mechanical device that has proved to be amazingly elusive to emulate. The way the sound bounces around the cabinet, how it escapes through the vents, how the top and bottom rotors interact, how the doppler effect is perceived at various distances - all this had to be analyzed and recreated. Now, at long last, a small German company has managed to get within spitting distance of the "correct" sound.

The problem of recreating the piano sound is even more complex. It is not a simple matter of analyzing a waveform over time - otherwise it would have been done. The sound of a piano has essentially four dimensions. It exists almost as a physical object, mutating over time and presenting different "surfaces" to the listener. That is where the magic lies. If Modartt or Roland, or whoever can take those billions of bits of information and stitch them into something that is indistinguishable from the real thing, they will have achieved something immense. Let's encourage them.


i guess i really like the "little engine that could" approach of pianoteq. they keep huffing and puffing their way up the hill. To me, its what entrepeneurism is all about. They love what they do, and damnit, they aren't going to quit until they get you to love it too. Might not happen, but the glass is always half full to that crew. I'm not there yet, but i sure like their approach to life. Meanwhile, Roland thunders in with the V-Bomb and all its hoopla, drops it on us, and quickly leaves the scene of the crime. its a marvel of technology, but you wonder sometimes if it were built by the the machine world of the terminator. why did they leave us?


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Originally Posted by pianojohnw
Ive just purchased east west qua quantum leap pianos ive heard some very mixed opinions on it some very good some not very good hoping it is good anyone got any opinions on east west pianos
Some of us tried to help you correct your issues with Ivory II, but you never replied and apparently ignored our other advice. Good luck with EWQL Pianos.


Macy

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Originally Posted by bfb
[Pianoteq 4 ] ... they keep moving forward with this product. It is wrong of us just to sh*tcan it flippantly.
I can't speak for others, but I don't dismiss it flippantly.

Rather: I listen. I cringe. I dismiss.

Then someone trumpets a new version.

Then: I listen. I cringe. I dismiss.

I don't see them moving ahead at all.

I really find Pianoteq disgusting. It's a bit less so than was version 2. But still it has no place in my home.

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I record with Pianoteq 3.6 little improvisation - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCkUtSsBucA
Of course, PT sound is not a great, but very ... adequate? acceptable? Dynamic range and decay are excellent (for me)


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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Originally Posted by bfb
[Pianoteq 4 ] ... they keep moving forward with this product. It is wrong of us just to sh*tcan it flippantly.
I can't speak for others, but I don't dismiss it flippantly.

Rather: I listen. I cringe. I dismiss.

Then someone trumpets a new version.

Then: I listen. I cringe. I dismiss.

I don't see them moving ahead at all.

I really find Pianoteq disgusting. It's a bit less so than was version 2. But still it has no place in my home.


do you really think version 4 is that awful? seems like a definite uptick to me. still manages to be metallic and muddy at the same time- but seemed a lot more real than earlier ones...



Last edited by bfb; 04/20/12 03:52 PM.

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Originally Posted by Tweedpipe
Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Jake Johnson
Here's the set of demo recordings using some of the presets:

http://www.pianoteq.com/d4_in_action

After a ~30 second listen: much too bright and the attacks sound somehow synthetic. Make it stop... Who picks this crazy frenetic demo music?


A certainly agree with this.
I have Pianoteq 3 Play, and based on the Pianoteq 4 demos I definitely will not be upgrading.


Most of the demos sound amazingly bad. The blues is pretty nice, the pop is horrific. I downloaded the trial version anyway, and it sounds much different in actual use.

I've been very happy with Pianoteq 3 Play. I'm a bit of a heretic in that I couldn't care less that my digital piano doesn't sound exactly like an acoustic piano, as long as the sound is something I like. I've gotten a lot of compliments on the sound I get from Pianoteq and the feel of the Fatar keyboard I use, but nobody has said it sounds and feels exactly like an acoustic piano. I'm really fine with that.

The version 4 demo was kind of jarring at first. It's supposed to be a Steinway, but out of the box it has all the things I don't like about a Yamaha C3 that belongs to a friend of mine, which doesn't sound like there is a piece of wood in it. Different EQ settings have a huge effect. I haven't had time to really play with it, but it seems like there's a lot of potential. I've gotten some sounds I like almost as much as the ones I get from version 3. There is a lot more complexity to the sound, more like a "real" piano, but not necessarily in a good way.

I'm definitely going to play around with it more before I make any decision.


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Originally Posted by tinknocker
I couldn't care less that my digital piano doesn't sound exactly like an acoustic piano, as long as the sound is something I like.


That is exactly where I am with all of this. I think of Pianoteq as just another music instrument. It sounds the way it sounds. If I find something I like, great. If not, I don't use it.

I have pretty much gotten to a place now where I use my software piano sounds to blend with my CA63 sound. It seems that I can get the main attack sound from the CA63 and I just blend the Pianoteq to add body to the sound. It works very well. It gives me a lot of variety in the sounds I have available. It is a very enjoyable way to experience different sounds while practicing.


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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by tinknocker
I couldn't care less that my digital piano doesn't sound exactly like an acoustic piano, as long as the sound is something I like.


That is exactly where I am with all of this. I think of Pianoteq as just another music instrument. It sounds the way it sounds. If I find something I like, great. If not, I don't use it.

whether on drums, violin, piano, singing or whistling ...
The most important is to have fun playing music with our favorite instruments wink


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