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Dave the only thing that sounds good to me is that Steinway B I played at my gig last week. I will post pictures of me and my bass player. The best action, best tone, best experience I've ever had playing a piano, whether digital or acoustic. My Nords, particularly the NP1, is nothing more than a tool to earn money on. I live it's sounds, interface, feature, weight, etc. but part of what pushed me to buy the AvantGrand N1 was I needed something far better to practice on than the NP88 action. It's a good lightweight action, the pianos sound great, but there's nothing about it that really compares to a good acoustic piano, let alone a high end grand like a Steinway B. I support whichever decision you make smile - after all, between November 2010 and July 2011, I bought the RD700NX, RD300GX, NP88, NE3 61, and my AvantGrand N1. All in the pursuit of an inspiring DP to play. It's kinda hard to put a price on that.


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My recent experience has been that a softer velocity curve really makes the NP sound much better. The "harshness" is transformed to "realism". Of course, this means dragging a second board around, but lately I've been carrying the P-250 for the "bells and whistles" (literally). I was really surprised at the difference in the sound.
I'm thinking about a scripting a Midipipe velocity curve tool for the Nord. Maybe I'll try it next week.
If I could carry my Baldwin to gigs (or play in places that have grands) I would ditch all of these DP's ! No, I better keep one, the Baldwin doesn't have a volume control or a headphone jack !


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Originally Posted by Hideki Matsui
I'm not overly impressed with the pianos on my Kronos either. The EPs are a different story but those are modeled.



BTW Bruce did you get the Kronos fixed yet ? The Korg corporate police banned me (and a lot of others) over there So I can't keep up with progress


"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
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Originally Posted by ZacharyForbes
between November 2010 and July 2011, I bought the RD700NX, RD300GX, NP88, NE3 61, and my AvantGrand N1. All in the pursuit of an inspiring DP to play.

Wish I could have a journey like yours Zach. Back in the days of GigaStudio I bought pretty much every sample library for the piano.


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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
I enjoy the NP for what it is--small scale, lightweight, records well, great rhodes and wurlis, sounds good in mono. But after playing the CP5 the experience playing the NP is basically-yuk.. frown That digital harshness, squirrelly sounding upper register (2 octaves above middle C on all piano samples) and inferior, sluggish action are just starting to bug me.

I stopped in the Pasadena GC today and re-visited the 700NX. My first reaction touching it was- man this is nice. They had a Stage 2 88 a few keyboards down and I hopped on that just for quick comparison...no comparison really.

OK-why would I want another 55 lb. DP ? I don't know, I'm nuts agreed ... crazy But something about the 700 speaks to me in a way that even my CP5 doesn't . I guess I'm getting sick of compromising on the action of these things in favor of the weight. How much use would I get out of it ? (I wouldn't bring it as a lightweight option to the CP5 obviously) Don't know, again not logical. And yeah I know the obvious that I've stated many times myself--all these things are a compromise, just get the lightest tool that will do the job for you...True but I'm basically not having fun playing the Nord.

Hi Dave, whatever you do you have my support. You must have come a long way to arrive at your dilemma.


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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
Originally Posted by Hideki Matsui
I'm not overly impressed with the pianos on my Kronos either. The EPs are a different story but those are modeled.



BTW Bruce did you get the Kronos fixed yet ? The Korg corporate police banned me (and a lot of others) over there So I can't keep up with progress


Really? You weren't even causing trouble. Thats BS.

Not fixed yet. Waiting for parts. Still can't endorse the Kronos though. Sounds great but crap is crap.


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Yeah a few people who wouldn't tow the Korg corporate line and pushed for a recall rather then a warranty repair got their accounts binned ... you must have escaped by the skin of your teeth wink So much for the "Independently moderated" I guess.


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Originally Posted by maurus
Dave, is it possible that you have the "my digital piano sucks because it is no acoustic" syndrome? This syndrome will drive you from one DP to the next but is actually incurable I suppose (at least for the time being). I agree with what the others have said - stick with the two you have; if the NP action is bugging you, go to the CP5, if the latter's sounds are unsatisfactory, go back to the NP. A new digital piano will probably help just for a few weeks or months before you are back in the syndrome cycle.


i do agree with this. i think player/listener fatigue with DP sample/sounds is very real. for me its even true with recordings, the more i listen to them, the more i hear stuff i don't like- to a point where that's all i hear. and then if i don't listen to them for 3-6 months- and i play them again, i think they sound fine and wonder what i was being so critical about.


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Originally Posted by maurus
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
They just sound harsh and grating to me...


Any DP I've heard so far does sound harsh and grating... in comparison with a real piano.


but i still think there is a place for a DP, even if you own a nice AP. I spend a lot of time practicing runs/ chord inversions/ reharmonizations. if i do that on our grand, my wife inevitably walks in and says- "can't you just play a song?". So the privacy of a keyboard- to me- is a critical part of my learning experience. maybe i wouldn't say that if i built a piano room with the right acoustics in my house, but then where would my wife put our daughter's wedding pictures?


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As others have posted before, I'm not really sure if the 700NX is really what will make you happy.

From what you wrote I gather two main problems:
1. You're pretty satisfied with your CP5, the thing is just too damn heavy.
2. You're not happy with your Nord Piano, although its portability is attractive.

That sounds rather like a transport problem than a need for a new piano. As you know, the Roland isn't lighter or smaller than the CP5, so you would save nothing. If I were you, I'd consider three options:

1. Get a case with wheels or have wheels retrofitted to your existing case. I'm sure it will make a substantial difference. It's so much easier to wheel those bulky pianos than actually carrying them.
2. If you don't have a lot of stuff to move and are usually in charge when moving your CP5, you could even consider ditching the case and getting a Soundwear Stagebag with wheels. Those things are great. I have one myself and for my personal use I would not go back to flight cases.
3. If none of the above appeals to you, why not get a collapsible hand truck and a couple of belts or straps to attach the keyboard case to it. They make life so much easier – not just for piano cases but also power amps, speakers … whatever. It's a purchase you will surely not regret.

Last edited by andi85; 02/13/12 02:23 PM.

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Originally Posted by bfb
....maybe i wouldn't say that if i built a piano room with the right acoustics in my house, but then where would my wife put our daughter's wedding pictures?


Look, I know it's difficult to see divorce as a positive thing, but.......

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Originally Posted by EssBrace

Look, I know it's difficult to see divorce as a positive thing, but.......


Haha, you know that was my first thought too. Priorities smile .

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https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

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Dave,

I really loved the RD-700NX when I played it at Sam Ash last year but it was out of my price range. Also as you know I play alot of Blues gigs and the idea of tweaking the Roland sound to make it work for me in a slightly louder mix brought back memories of working that very nice Roland interface till my fingers were numb on my original RD700 to try and make the Roland AP work for me in a louder context. I think the Supernatural piano and Sound Focus may be better than on the old original RD700 but my insticts tell me not to the degree I may want! I had a V-Combo with the AP soundcard same problem.

As I have always said the Roland sound on a louder stage is very prone to frequency cancellation from other instruments and monitors. It was a beautiful thing tough for the half hour or so I spent playing it at Ash. Very nice playing and sounding board. The CP50 was more in my budget anyway and I'm pretty happy with it trading in my CP300.
I still kind of miss 300 at times but the CP50 was a move up in alot of ways though not all. It has a thinner sound than the P Series stuff and I find it a bit less forgiving playing wise.

Last edited by legatoboy; 02/13/12 06:24 PM.

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I too was not knocked out by the Rhodes type sounds on the CP5 but created a layer which isn't too bad. I'll get around to uploading a file to my web site.


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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
I too was not knocked out by the Rhodes type sounds on the CP5 but created a layer which isn't too bad. I'll get around to uploading a file to my web site.


I haven't spent any time with the CP5, but I thought the EPs on the CP1 were pretty amazing. The Kronos EPs might have the edge, but by the slimmest of margins.

I have heard Buddy Guy's keyboard player using the CP5 on several occasions and thought it had a great sound for live use.


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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
On the Concert Grand sample there's this ugly metallic wank on Ab a +5 above middle C. Also on the A a half step up.


Exactly why I ditched the FP-7F...horrible sound. If it affected all notes you could deal with it using a velocity curve issue or something but there are actually (to my ears) two little clusters of metallic nonsense in the midrange on the Roland SN stuff - the worst being centred between Gb and Ab in the octave above middle C (that is from memory). The line you have to cross to find them in terms of velocity is terribly fine...at one velocity all is smooth and nice then - TWANG! - just the slightest increase in velocity and it rears its head on those notes. Very frustrating because otherwise they are such fine sounding pianos.

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I was able, at least to my satisfaction, to rid my FP-7F of the metallic twang that so bothers some posters by turning off the Reverb (I've taped the button over so I wouldn't even hit it accidentally), setting Duplex Scale at zero, adjusting Stretch Tuning on the offending individual notes up or down, and setting the Key Touch Response to the exact point where my particular playing no longer would elicit any undesirable harshness (vis-a-vis desirable harshness).

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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
in favor of the 700NX. I know, has Ferris lost his mind ?!!!


Yep!

Seriously, if you're prepared to go back to a 55lb DP why not just take the CP5 out? Although it's about the same weight basically as the Roland, one thing I did notice with the Yamaha was that it was easier to manipulate onto stands etc because a) it has some right angles in the case design and b) the weight is more evenly distributed, whereas the RDs are very back-heavy.

For myself, I've gotten to the point where even the NP seems a little heavy at times, even considered an Electro HP. But I've decided to try eliminating a second board on most outings by grabbing a Stage 2 - which I will do as soon as I decide I can live with the lighter action smile

Ah, compromise thy name is piano...


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I'm with you Aidan. In my Nord gig bag, as nice as the bag is, the NP88 is almost more weight than I want to carry. It doesn't help that my flat is on the second story. I will keep my NP88 for a long time. I only ever use one or two pianos, and one or two EPs live so the 500MB is plenty of space for 2 XL samples and then some. The next thing I'm spending tons of money on is a real acoustic grand piano. No more DPs, except for the replacement NP88 with meaningful updates.

Last edited by ZacharyForbes; 02/14/12 02:38 PM.

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