Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Shopping for a grand: what size is best for the room?

I have been casually searching for a grand piano for my home for quite some time. I recently came to the realization that my uncertainty about the size of the piano as it relates to the room where it will be housed is what's keeping me from advancing my shopping toward a more narrowed focus. I don't want the piano to overwhelm the space, and my room has mostly hard surfaces and a relatively low ceiling (7'-2"). We do have hardwood floors in it and all adjacent rooms.

I am an advanced player and originally thought I wouldn't find the touch and sound of anything under 6' acceptable. But I'm now wondering if even a 5'10" might be too much for the space.

Does anybody have suggestions as to how to best gauge what size would be most appropriate for my environment? I know at least a couple area rugs are in my future, but is there some way I can test or predict how the room will react to the sounds of potential instruments? Sure would be nice if dealers would offer in-home test runs...

Thanks all.

Er, I can't judge because I can't see your room, but there are good pianos around 160-180 cms, Like, Wendl und Lung/Hailun/Feurich (same brand with perhaps some subtle differences) 178 cms piano, Kawai Rx-2 (KG-2 for the older models), Yamaha C2, Steinway M, O/L, Bosendorfer 170, Bluthner Model 10,

You'll find something.

Alternatively, you might find an upright you like, like a Yamaha U3, a Kawai K6 or something. Don't despair, there is a piano out there for you!

In Larry Fine's great "The Piano Book," he says maximum length should be one tenth of the circumference of the room. Thus, in a room of 10 feet by 15 feet, if you add 10+15+10+15 and get 50 feet, then a room that size should have a piano only 5 feet in length or, he claims, height (if it's a vertical). This last piece makes no sense to me, given that the entire height of a vertical deals indirectly with string length, though in grands, a significant chunk consists of just keyboard. Your very low ceiling height would, if anything, arguably shave a little off this figure.

The explanation in Fine's book assumes an enclosed room or one with just a doorway. Another consideration is whether or not you want to play with the lid raised.

Some dealers will offer an in home test if you pay for shipping if you don't take the piano or agree to buy a smaller piano if the bigger one deosn't work.

Thanks for the replies. The circumference of my room is about 62' which includes three wide openings (no doors) into adjacent rooms, two at 4' wide, one at 6' wide. If the low ceiling doesn't reduce Larry's rule of thumb too drastically, maybe I can indeed get away with something in the six-foot range. I assume I'll need to soften the room surfaces regardless, but this gives me a little more hope I won't have to sacrifice touch/tone as much as I thought.

Well, I have a 7-footer in a room about 12'x13.5'. It opens through an archway into the living room. To be honest, it's A LOT of piano for the room, but it's manageable. I put a rug underneath, added some bookcases and wall hangings. I recently just invested in a few acoustic panels as well (not sure how they will work out yet, still waiting for them to arrive). I guess what I'm saying is that there's a lot you can do to the room to "tame" it. OTOH, you can't make the piano bigger.

MAFreeze,

I asked a similar question back in 2006 when I just came to join the forum.
I think little has changed since then. Ever since manufacturers made their concert grands more powerful as to suit the bigger orchestra settings/bigger concert rooms the race towards more powerful samller grnads and even uprights continued.

The issue then of how to tame the beast in the living room has been an ever recurring one on this forum.

You might find some information that is useful in following links:

Q. for Del? Grands suitable for small room - as of post #119180

Boston string tension - as of post #1728060

schwammerl.

Cool. By that formula, I could do that 11-foot Pearl River or even con Rubinstein out of his 12-footer.

I think it is reasonable that a piano should not take up more than 1/3 the area of the room.

Dear Friend remember the adventure of Perri Knize in her book A Grand Obsession. Her new Steinweg did not sound the way she expected when she got it in her home..... I have a friend who had owned a very expensive upright and decided to advance too a large grand. He got his new expensive piano in his home, like you he has a low ceiling height as in your home... When he plays his new piano he finds a resonance in the room when he plays a given note in the bass register. If he lowers his head or raises his head a good deal he can not hear the resonance. I can not recall what he did to fix the problem but it had only to do with room acoustics and not the piano.. so you will not know what you have until you get it home. I have a nine foot Yamaha and feared it would be too much for my home though I love the action etc. In my home it sounded better than it did in the dealers big showroom.... best wishes and buy a piano that you love is my best advise

"...like you he has a low ceiling height as in your home... When he plays his new piano he finds a resonance in the room when he plays a given note in the bass register. If he lowers his head or raises his head a good deal he can not hear the resonance. I can not recall what he did to fix the problem but it had only to do with room acoustics and not the piano..."

Unless your music room was built with the acoustics of a piano in mind (and maybe even then), there are bound to be unwanted artifacts that require acoustic treatment of the room, or adjustment of the piano's position--- or adjustment of your expectations. Whether it's resonance, reflections, volume, evening-out of the timbre, or, who knows, you may invent a new one.

Of course, pianos can have their issues as well... which will change as the piano acclimates to its new home and adapts to your touch, and the skill of the tech who voices it. Either way, it's going to take some effort and experimentation to get it just right, and the best outcome is likely to be that you'll get really close; even really, really close. And yet, there's that tiny bit that it could be from being 100% satisfied. Thus, adjusting your expectations and being happy. It seems obvious, but some people just can't do it.

Since you're an advanced player and want a grand, I'm going to take the liberty of assuming this is important enough to you to embark on this lengthy process. So I'm going to say, go for six feet, or even six-and-a-half or seven. The touch and tone will be inherently more satisfying, and so will the results of your efforts. Seven may be kind of daring for a room the size of yours, but if I had to do it over, that's what I would do. The bass is just that much nicer than a six-and-a-half, and otherwise the effort of adjustment is little-changed.

It is possible to have a piano that is so loud that it damages the player's hearing, over the long run. I guess if you had to have a hard limit, that's where it would be. And that's where the expense of a home try-out becomes really worth it. No real player wants to tiptoe over the keys all the time; sometimes you've got to just open up and play full-out (without the ears buzzing for a week afterward).

I have read other posts where members have said that a 9-foot concert D works well in their home, because it is more controllable in the p to ppp range. But still, the exact location, be it only an inch different, can mean the world to the sound the player hears. Some--- not I, but some--- might find a 9-footer pretentious for the home. The modesty of a seven-footer (and of course, the price tag) may be the more becoming. Otherwise, I think you sacrifice little.

If you go below 6', it is a much sharper sacrifice. I wouldn't.

Some people, finding their music room unsuitable for a nice piano, wouldn't hesitate to move. I'm just saying.

This is great information. I very much appreciate the well thought-out replies. I really need to make this room work and your thoughts give me confidence I can do that, even IF a little sacrifice in my desires and expectations is necessary. Sounds like it won't be as big an issue as I initially feared, and I WILL be taking as much time as necessary to make the piano and room work together harmoniously.

I'll keep the forum posted with my progress and the inevitable follow-up requests for advice!

Many good suggestions here already. AS one person said to me, &, he was a recording engineer...." the room is the instrument." Quite true in some respects but what it also means is that the Piano and the room acoustics are married and if the marriage is to be harmonious then the hammers and the voicing are critical components of the union
ie. My Steinway B is in a room with 8 ft ceilings. Its approx. 18 wide and 25 ft long.
It produces a big fat sound that is dark, warm and clear, yet, without being crashy at all. I like to describe this tonal envelope as "power without noise". My B has Ronsen Weickert felt hammers on it and they are perfect for the piano/ room. I have lots of glass,and hardwood floors interspersed with an area rug and the usual living room furniture..
The sound fills the room and even at fff its never overpowering my ears. However if it had hard pressed hammers that emphasis the attack or impact of the hammer it wouldn't work. Even a small piano may sound to over powering with hard pressed hammers(which most are these days).
So buy at least 5 ft 10 and preferably 6 ft or slightly larger and prepare it with nice hammers or voicing. As long as the sound fills out you'll be happy for the benefits just a bit more overall piano length can make.

Ahh.. the conundrum. You can never have a house big enough, nor a piano big enough. Horowitz had a 9' in his living room. He made some pretty nice recordings there. I have had quite a few concert grands, and never minded them a bit. With carpeting and the lid down I had one in a 13X13 room with no problems. Buy what you enjoy and don't overanalyze or listen to the naysayers.

Buy the piano you like the best.

I have 9.5 foot ceilings, wall-to-wall carpets, bookshelves on all four walls, and lots of furniture to dampen the sound of the room, which is 17.5' X 23' so I am feeling that any size bigger piano up to a concert grand would work in the room. Do you agree?

My room is comparable but with hardwoods and 8' ceilings. I have two concert grands in the room. We wanted hardwoods because my wife's a singer and the carpeting tended to kill any resonance in the room. I just keep the lid down and play quieter when accompanying her. Buy what you like!

Try out as many pianos as you can. You may also want to consider testing out the acoustics in the designated room beforehand so you wouldn't have the headaches described in the book "Grand Obsession".

Is price an object? Or is jsut finding the right piano that suits you the criteria? Just curious.

Hi all. I realize I'm reviving a thread from a few weeks back, but I've been vacationing on Maui where for once, a piano wasn't at the forefront of my mind!

I appreciate ALL the advice that continued to pour in on the topic. While the low ceilings still have me just a tad concerned, I believe I'm in a good spot and will move forward knowing now the issue is less of a concern than I once had thought. "The Grand Obsession" certainly sounds like an interesting read that I may have to check out. Thanks for that tip, hotkeys.

Dale Erwin: Price is more of an object than I wish it were, but I'm shooting for something in the $20-25k range. If something pleasing comes along for less, by all means I'd go for it. Sound and feel are pivotal.