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Post a recording of your playing, that should settle things. Hmmm. There have been many of these challenges posed in the few years I've been here. I'm not sure that any of them actually settled anything.
Du holde Kunst...
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I am still waiting for recordings from a few such posters. Not holding my breath, though. (not anyone on this thread, though).
Blues and Boogie-Woogie piano teacher.
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Here is an excerpt of Liszt's Sonata in Bm from PBS. Not to my taste but I've heard worse. (me )
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Post a recording of your playing, that should settle things. Hmmm. There have been many of these challenges posed in the few years I've been here. I'm not sure that any of them actually settled anything. It is not a challenge. He doesn't have to practice like crazy for the next one month to make a recording. This is just to prove a point. If he is sure that he's at least at my playing level for instance (which is not very high at all), then I could stand corrected. If it is this easy to prove me wrong, why not do it? He wouldn't though. RonaldSteinway once promised everybody that he would play the Islamey and upload it. What ended up happening was he played the opening bars, sent me a video via PM and claimed that the rest of the video got cut off while uploading! Funnily enough, the video got cut exactly when he had begun playing some challenging octaves (and pretty sloppily at that!). So there is a reason why these people don't keep their word. Alex hasn't agreed to, of course, but if he has been playing since the age of 8 or 9 and he is 37 now, one might expect a certain level of playing from him, since he had a performing pianist (his grandmother teach him) and since he has been taking lessons from a conservatory faculty member for the past one year. It needn't be a response to my "challenge". We routinely post our humble attempts in the member recordings area. All I'm suggesting is that he put up a few recordings there in the not too distant future because its good to know where he's coming from musically. No amount of wordy posts will do that.
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Grimaud's Brahms Op 119 No 3 has always been one of my favorite performances of the piece. She's no Myra Hess... but I've heard many far worse performances of the work. Her recording of the Bartok 3rd concerto is among the most interesting and absorbing that I've heard. She studied with Sandor, so there is that connection, too. The CD on which it appears is an unusual one, with Boulez conducting the three Bartok piano concertos with three different pianists and orchestras. The other pianists are Zimerman and Andsnes. All in all, surprisingly high-quality company in which to find a bad pianist, if you think she is that.
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am i the only one who thinks michelangeli's playing is about as robotic as it gets? error-free yes; but sometimes i swear i'm listening to a piano roll when a CD of his is spinning.
You essentially sum up my feelings toward Pollini. (His recording of the Chopin etudes is the only recording of his I like... okay, the Bartok 2nd too.) I understand how you feel about Michelangeli, though his icy perfection isn't so bothersome to me, in fact it has a certain ghoulish fascination for me. Try his recording of the Beethoven 1st Concerto. It's like some BIG iceberg just slid into an 18th century drawing room. The results? Awesome! You'll never hear that concerto with the same ears again, though I do not recommend it as an 'only' recording. Michelangeli was quite capable of playing with total abandon when he was in the mood, especially in earlier years - listen to his Grieg Concerto (live recording from London) from 1959 on a BBC Legends CD - there's even a wrong note in the opening cadenza .
If music be the food of love, play on!
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Post a recording of your playing, that should settle things. Hmmm. There have been many of these challenges posed in the few years I've been here. I'm not sure that any of them actually settled anything. It is not a challenge. He doesn't have to practice like crazy for the next one month to make a recording. This is just to prove a point. If he is sure that he's at least at my playing level for instance (which is not very high at all), then I could stand corrected. If it is this easy to prove me wrong, why not do it? He wouldn't though. RonaldSteinway once promised everybody that he would play the Islamey and upload it. What ended up happening was he played the opening bars, sent me a video via PM and claimed that the rest of the video got cut off while uploading! Funnily enough, the video got cut exactly when he had begun playing some challenging octaves (and pretty sloppily at that!). So there is a reason why these people don't keep their word. Alex hasn't agreed to, of course, but if he has been playing since the age of 8 or 9 and he is 37 now, one might expect a certain level of playing from him, since he had a performing pianist (his grandmother teach him) and since he has been taking lessons from a conservatory faculty member for the past one year. It needn't be a response to my "challenge". We routinely post our humble attempts in the member recordings area. All I'm suggesting is that he put up a few recordings there in the not too distant future because its good to know where he's coming from musically. No amount of wordy posts will do that. In the past I've given you the benefit of the doubt (which is how I proceed with anyone at first) and talked about/explained my background. More than I needed to perhaps, but I did it because I thought you were serious and sincere. Same with some others I don't need to name. I then realized that was a mistake on my part (to make that assumption), as it clearly went over your head and/or you really had no interest in it other than to use it for trolling around. As an example look at the first post you made in this thread! What did it have to do with the topic of Grimaud? Nothing at all. What was the intent of your post then? Right... So there is nothing to "settle", and you can either take my posts at face value or ignore them. And that's really all anyone can do on the Internet and anonymous forums anyway. Anyone can upload music, but do you know if it's really them playing? Could be a friend, etc. You can't ever know for sure, so it IS pointless in such things. It settles nothing, nor does it lend less or more credibility to a user's posts - which can and should be judged at face value for reasons stated. If something is wrong or incorrect in one's posts, others can (and do) usually tell pretty fast and point it out. No need for background checks, investigation, and detective work.. If I ever feel the need to have something critiqued on the Internet, I can certainly record and upload something. And I very well may at some point. But not to "settle" anything with people that troll and don't seem genuine. But for genuine reasons of my own, of which I don't have any right now. As an example you have some pieces you play that are available here to listen to. Outside of asking for critique, which I assume is your intention for posting them, they don't lend more or less credibility to your posts or insights at all. It's this part you don't seem to understand. Your posts speak for themselves. You can play like crap and be civil and insightful as a poster, or you can play great and choose to be the opposite.
Last edited by alexb; 02/25/11 10:35 AM.
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Just because somebody doesn't play well doesn't mean that they can't listen well. Some comments are mean spirited, and dismissing someone's post on the basis of playing level is one of them. There are plenty of longtime members here who have never posted a recording.
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Michelangeli was quite capable of playing with total abandon when he was in the mood, especially in earlier years - listen to his Grieg Concerto (live recording from London) from 1959 on a BBC Legends CD - there's even a wrong note in the opening cadenza . Horrors! A wrong note? Not to derail the thread -though I have nothing further to add about Grimaud- has anyone here heard Michelangeli live? And bennevis, can you recommend other live recordings?
Jason
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Just because somebody doesn't play well doesn't mean that they can't listen well. Some comments are mean spirited, and dismissing someone's post on the basis of playing level is one of them. There are plenty of longtime members here who have never posted a recording. I think there is strong, if not perfect, connection between one's ability to play and one's ability to listen. How can know what to listen for if one hasn't gone through that experience/training oneself? I think the exception would sometimes be training/ability/experience with a musical instrument other than piano.
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Is not music a universal language? Does it have to take a musician to be able to listen music well? If this is the case, we should have a much smaller Carneige Hall that is just large enough to sit musicians and a few others who try to listen to music while they shouldn't attempt to at the first place.
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Just because somebody doesn't play well doesn't mean that they can't listen well. Some comments are mean spirited, and dismissing someone's post on the basis of playing level is one of them. There are plenty of longtime members here who have never posted a recording. I think there is strong, if not perfect, connection between one's ability to play and one's ability to listen. How can know what to listen for if one hasn't gone through that experience/training oneself? I think the exception would sometimes be training/ability/experience with a musical instrument other than piano. You may have good ears but that doesn't necessarily mean that you have the technique to produce the effects you hear. Are the music critics also the greatest pianists? Are book critics the best novelists? Are food critics the best chefs?
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
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Michelangeli was quite capable of playing with total abandon when he was in the mood, especially in earlier years - listen to his Grieg Concerto (live recording from London) from 1959 on a BBC Legends CD - there's even a wrong note in the opening cadenza . Horrors! A wrong note? Not to derail the thread -though I have nothing further to add about Grimaud- has anyone here heard Michelangeli live? And bennevis, can you recommend other live recordings? Yes, a wrong note from ABM is about as common as hen's teeth, but it's all there, preserved on plastic . I heard him live once - quite an occasion, as everybody was on tenterhooks wondering whether he was going to cancel at the last minute. But he'd brought two Steinways with him - one for Chopin, the other for Beethoven (naturally). And he played like a god, after a slight nod to the audience, hands clasped as if keeping his fingers warm. Not a note out of place (alas ), every chord perfectly weighted, all melodic/polyphonic lines crystal clear, not even the suggestion of a blurred note or uneven trills or runs. I couldn't hear any difference between his two pianos, but then my ears aren't up to ABM's exalted level. He even deigned to give us an encore, a Chopin Mazurka, such as an Italian aristocrat might dance to - no Polish nonsense (like stressing the 'wrong' beat) from him. We all rose and cheered. He actually managed something resembling a smile of appreciation . As for recordings, I'd recommend his Brahms Paganini Variations, Bach-Busoni Chaconne (already mentioned), Rachmaninov's 4th Piano Concerto (truly spell-binding in its virtuosity) coupled with Ravel's G major (just don't copy his desynchronised hands in the slow movement) - all on EMI, and his DG Chopin CD of Ballade No.1, Scherzo No.2 and Mazurkas: his Chopin is like no other. And there's also a black & white DVD of him (on VAI) playing most of the same Chopin from years earlier - watching him play the trecherous coda to Ballade No.1 (with immense power and velocity) as if it was a simple arpeggio is enough to make any other pianist weep with envy...... There're lots of live bootleg recordings of ABM, mostly from Italy, but the sound is poor; try the one from the Vatican concert (yes, he played for the Pope). I'm not that keen on his Debussy and Ravel (despite his legendary Gaspard - there's actually smudging/split notes in the climax of Ondine in the BBC studio recording on a BBC Legends CD - another for your collection ). The Beethoven Concertos (no.1, 3 and 5)recorded live for DG are truly glacial in conception. But that Grieg Concerto, played with all guns (more like cannons actually) blazing is, I think, his best live recording. Just don't look for any pretty Norwegian fjords here . Apologies to everyone else for hijacking this thread - I still like Grimaud's playing, by the way .
If music be the food of love, play on!
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Grimaud's Brahms Op 119 No 3 has always been one of my favorite performances of the piece. She's no Myra Hess... but I've heard many far worse performances of the work. Her recording of the Bartok 3rd concerto is among the most interesting and absorbing that I've heard. She studied with Sandor, so there is that connection, too. The CD on which it appears is an unusual one, with Boulez conducting the three Bartok piano concertos with three different pianists and orchestras. The other pianists are Zimerman and Andsnes. All in all, surprisingly high-quality company in which to find a bad pianist, if you think she is that. I didn't realize Grimaud studied with Sandor. The two of them are well matched, though Grimaud doesn't have her teacher's gift of characterization. Sandor can plead in a child's voice one second and crash with the power of Thor the next.
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The best way to convince people why a pianist sucks is to explain which specific part and how musically she's done 'wrong' in a piece, and what is the supposed proper way she should have done. Don't you think so? I am still waiting to be enlightened.
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫ YAMAHA C2M PE
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Here is an excerpt of Liszt's Sonata in Bm from PBS. Not to my taste but I've heard worse. (me ) There are people who honestly like this? With its one note "phrases", and banged out, nothing is shaped in the loud sections because I don't think she hears it, accented melodic notes that really shouldn't be accented (like pick up notes) which result in something SO unmusical. And when she decides to try to be expressive, it's always these agogics that don't make musical sense and it sounds like the sonata has the hiccups. If she could listen properly, why would she accent a note after a long note in a phrase ALL the time. The sound decays, it's one of the most basic musicianship aspects of piano playing........ That's why I don't like her, because she isn't as sensitive (as maybe she can be), the tone never sings with her, it never actually goes anywhere, and it's weak, and it really bothers me how effects seem to be more important than the music, it's not musical playing, it's never connected with her gut (or maybe it is, and that's the best that can happen?), poor artistic vision. I could write more but I'll stop. There - now am I "allowed" to say for a world class concert pianist, she sucks? Go to 1:40, for the same part (I can't remember EXACTLY where she started, but relatively) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UFnqYT6DyU&feature=relatedOr Argerich, whom I don't even like very much (it's kind of fast, but listen to the slow section around 2:07 or so): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY69lc3vPvI&feature=relatedAround 8:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD0m9vfXadQ&feature=related5:20ish (it's crazy, but I still love it) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKLe6lRmHQ&feature=relatedExcept for Richter and Horowitz, they aren't my favourite musicians but they are musicians! Grimaud, to many people, is just a pianist...
Last edited by Pogorelich.; 02/25/11 02:24 PM.
"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
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Just because somebody doesn't play well doesn't mean that they can't listen well. Some comments are mean spirited, and dismissing someone's post on the basis of playing level is one of them. There are plenty of longtime members here who have never posted a recording. I think there is strong, if not perfect, connection between one's ability to play and one's ability to listen. How can know what to listen for if one hasn't gone through that experience/training oneself? I think the exception would sometimes be training/ability/experience with a musical instrument other than piano. You may have good ears but that doesn't necessarily mean that you have the technique to produce the effects you hear. Are the music critics also the greatest pianists? Are book critics the best novelists? Are food critics the best chefs? If someone is musical, it will be heard, regardless if their technique is limited or not...
"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
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I just turn the volume down and watch. Easy on the eyes she is.
Do or do not. There is no try.
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hey pogo, just curious... who are your favorite pianists?
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I just turn the volume down and watch. Easy on the eyes she is.
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
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