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Originally Posted by vabejas
I'm sure that one day you will come out with the perfect piano, you're almost there, keep searching TAD!! thumb
Now, let's see what we've got here and throw in a beta with a few careful changes, reflecting the following ideas: cool whistle

* Even more organic timbre (slightly darker for normal touch, Chopin would love this).
* A TAD deeper acoustic surround presence.
* Remove any occasional small overdrive side-effect some people have experienced (they called this 'phasing'), most likely originating from the EQ boost being handled by the internal compressor/limiter*.
* Improve headphones/recording compatibility (not limited to high-end gear).



STEINWAY GRAND DEVOTION 3.0 BETA

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 9 + Finger Nylon Gt. (CA93) / Pick Nylon Gt. (CA63/CA93), volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +5, mid +3, high +1

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: mellow 1
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 8
2 - 5 Touch: light (open lid), normal (half open lid), heavy (closed lid)
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: -1
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 1, depth 5


*) http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1482532.html#Post1482532

Last edited by TADutchman; 02/17/11 01:18 PM. Reason: lid simulation added

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Originally Posted by vabejas
Originally Posted by TADutchman
Originally Posted by TADutchman
Let's shake the tree! wink

Do you recall this one-liner? It may still take a while, but hold on, following 'the sequence of events', my not so wild guess is that a CA93/CA63 firmware update with new/improved feature(s) is upcoming...

Is that so? I wonder what the improvements might be...I'm very curious. More preset space?? wink


I want an USB Preset Loader cry

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Here's another update... smile


YAMMIE YAMAHA CFIIIS R2.0

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 5 + Mellow Grand 2, volume 5

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +2, mid -2, high +2

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: bright1 (open lid), normal (half open lid), mellow1 (closed lid), mellow2 (hermetically sealed lid) grin
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 9
2 - 3 String resonance: 9
2 - 4 Key off effect: 6
2 - 5 Touch: normal
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 7

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 2, depth 3


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Originally Posted by TADutchman
...

STEINWAY GRAND DEVOTION 3.0 BETA
...

You can remove the Beta-label TAD, as far as I'm concerned, it's an improvement, although minor, you've only changed the tone settings, or did I miss something?
It's slightly more balanced, less distortion through headphones, good Job! thumb


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Originally Posted by TADutchman
Here's another update... smile


YAMMIE YAMAHA CFIIIS R2.0
...


Now here's another piano I can live with: transition between soft and loud are much more in control compared to R.1.0. I don't mind playing with a closed lid, I like the mellow voicing best. The bright voicing is reserved for Coldplay stuff etc...

Well done again TAD, it's about time they build you a statue at "Kawai Square" in Ryuyo, or award you with the 'Blue Ribbon Medal' from the Emperor of Japan! grin laugh

I wish I wasn't the only reviewer at the moment though, the remarks from Pinipon, Mucci etc. were very valuable at the start of this great thread, where are you hiding guys?? wink


Kawai CA-93

'Music can name the unnameable and communicate the unknowable' (Leonard Bernstein)

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Originally Posted by vabejas
You can remove the Beta-label TAD, as far as I'm concerned
Thanks for your feedback, here's the finetuned final release! shocked cool
A combination of EQ, layer dynamics and FX were needed to accomplish this, but that's in hindsight because it's all about timbre matching by ear. whistle


STEINWAY GRAND DEVOTION R3.0 - NORMAL TOUCH EDITION

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 9 + Finger Nylon Gt. (CA93) / Pick Nylon Gt. (CA63/CA93), volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +5, mid +3, high +2

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: mellow 1
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 8
2 - 5 Touch: normal
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: -1
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 1, depth 4


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STEINWAY GRAND DEVOTION R3.0 - LIGHT TOUCH EDITION

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 9 + Finger Nylon Gt. (CA93) / Pick Nylon Gt. (CA63/CA93), volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +5, mid 0, high -1

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: mellow 2
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 9
2 - 5 Touch: light
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: -1
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 1, depth 4


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STEINWAY GRAND DEVOTION R3.0 - HEAVY TOUCH EDITION

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 9 + Finger Nylon Gt. (CA93) / Pick Nylon Gt. (CA63/CA93), volume 1

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +4, mid +2, high +4

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: normal
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 7
2 - 5 Touch: heavy
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 3 Layer octave: -1
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 1, depth 4


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Originally Posted by vabejas

I wish I wasn't the only reviewer at the moment though, the remarks from Pinipon, Mucci etc. were very valuable at the start of this great thread, where are you hiding guys?? wink


I've been away for a while, but now I'm back wink
Let me try the last patches and I give you me feedback soon.

Since the beginning of this year, most of time I'm using the patch Take the EX to the MAX R1.0 (half open lid version): I think it's a remarkable patch for every style of music, good playability and nice dynamics, deep bass and clear treble...

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Welcome back, Pini! smile

Talking about taking the EX to the Max, Kawai is quite often the winner's choice when it comes to international piano competitions. I'm preparing a special patch that reflects the qualities of the KAWAI EX in a big concert hall. It will be called KAWAI EX - THE WINNER'S CHOICE. cool

http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/why_kawai/winners_choice_09.html


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Here it is: incredibly rich timbres with arguably perfect touch, check it out! shocked shocked shocked 3hearts


KAWAI EX - THE WINNER'S CHOICE R1.0

Dual Voice: Concert Grand 2/Mellow Grand 2, volume 4 + Concert Grand, volume 6

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +6, mid +4, high +4

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: normal (open lid), mellow 1 (half open lid), mellow 2 (closed lid)
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 5
2 - 5 Touch: heavy
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 10

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 3, depth 6


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Originally Posted by TADutchman



KAWAI EX - THE WINNER'S CHOICE R1.0
...


It's an impressive piano TAD, especially in the lower register, vey full and complex, my only personal quibble is in playing single notes in the discant, where I miss a round tone, it's too DP for my taste, surely because of the layer choice! wink
I need to give it a few more spins though.
Thanks!
I'll PM you my piano creation a bit later, let me know what you think.

Last edited by vabejas; 02/21/11 09:01 AM.

Kawai CA-93

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Allright mate, let me guess, you picked the Mellow Grand 2 to start with... wink First aid: just lower the high EQ with a few dB to get a rounder discant.

We're getting closer to the summit now, let's better start wearing oxygen masks and A-brand sunglasses! cool


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Originally Posted by TADutchman
Allright mate, let me guess, you picked the Mellow Grand 2 to start with... wink. First aid: just lower the high EQ with a few dB to get a rounder discant.
...

Eh...wrong guess! wink I'm not to keen on MG2 just yet, I've based my patch on MG1, my favourite basic piano.

So alright, here it is, a personal creation of all previous experiences, "hiss-anger", "pedal problems", heavenly sounds and pure 9-foot joy.

Let me proudly present you the:

HAMBURG-D CONCERTGEBOUW GRAND R1.0 laugh laugh

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 7 + Concert Grand, volume 3

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +6, mid +3, high +3

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: normal
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 7
2 - 5 Touch: heavy
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 3, depth 3

Looking forward to your feedback.

I haven't checked if these settings are close to one of your previous piano patches TAD, I've just used my funny ears on this one!


Kawai CA-93

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That's not a PM. wink

Interesting stuff, also from an anger management point of view. And obviously I'm not the only one that can come up with sexy names. grin

Seriously, with these particular layered voices it's somewhere between the Close Miked Concert Grand (dry, heavy touch) and the Concert Hall Coloured Grand (reverberant, light touch) with other settings similar to recent and updated patches like the Steinway Grand Devotion, so should be good.

I'll have a listen tonight and I'm also curious about Pini's opinion.
By the way, have you played the highest note, a loud C7 yet? whistle


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Indeed it sounds very good, NICE!! Doesn't happen to sing quite as much as the Steinway Grand Devotion though (a direct comparison is almost inevitable given the name; thanks, now I remember again why I selected a layered guitar voice instead of a piano voice), but still quite an achievement, bravo! thumb

Just like the Steinway, it lacks a bit of brilliance with the heavy touch settings (it happens, albeit personal), so I also transformed it into a more brilliant normal touch version by only changing the voicing, leaving as much intact as possible:


HAMBURG-D CONCERTGEBOUW GRAND R1.0 - NORMAL TOUCH EDITION

Dual Voice: Mellow Grand, volume 7 + Concert Grand, volume 3

1 Basic Settings
1 - 3 Tone control: low +6, mid +3, high +3

2 Virtual Technician
2 - 1 Voicing: mellow1
2 - 2 Damper resonance: 10
2 - 3 String resonance: 10
2 - 4 Key off effect: 7
2 - 5 Touch: normal
2 - 8 Stretch tuning: Wide

3 Key Settings
3 - 4 Layer dynamics: 9

Reverb: Hall 2

Effect: Delay 3, time 3, depth 3


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The above made me think about the next step that is missing:

First Pinipon and then also Vabejas (in record-time) managed to become
Kawai CA93/CA63 custom presets reviewer
Come on mucci, you can do it too, you're almost there! The remaining action is to review your top 8 favourite dual voice presets here. smile

But what's next? How can you enter the next level and become regarded as a
Kawai CA93/CA63 dual voice mode co-developer
I would propose that, after becoming a custom presets reviewer, you would need to at least develop two new and original sounding high-quality dual voice presets for every section of the presets list provided by ripe_md. I will personally review the presets and take into account any professional opinions of qualified presets reviewers.

Sounds quite reasonable, doesn't it? wink Especially, compared to the number of dual voice presets that already have been developed. Privileges of a 'certified' co-developer can be discussed as soon as it becomes relevant, i.e. as soon as the first one qualifies...


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Hi TAD,
As you know, since the beginning I wasn't a big fan of the Steinway GD patches, but now my opinion is different and I have to say shocked wow : this R3.0 is a really big improvement - good "wooden" resonance, even I'm playing on my CA63 without soundboard, something like percussive part of real hammer's is noticeable (I don't know what it is, maybe is generate by the overall timbre/resonance of this patch, but whatever it is, I like it wink ), you carefully modified the Voicing&Tone control for each touch curve in order to get the same timbre for the all 3 touch editions; the playability is also good for the 3 editions. Personally I prefer the Normal Edition.

Even though unfortunately I'm not a jazz player grin , I've tried The Way It Is patch and I like it: it sounds very good for jazzy moments... (I prefer the half open lid version)

What I like very much is to play patches with lid control: I play some minutes with closed lid, then I change to the next versions (half open and open): the switch transitions makes me feel very great because it causes a "virtual" moment of "realism" wink

Regarding the CFIIIS, as any grand piano patch, I need more "test drive" to give you my feedback.

In any case, thumb once again

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Originally Posted by TADutchman

I'll have a listen tonight and I'm also curious about Pini's opinion.


Hi TAD and Vabejas, I believe your latest patches are great but let me try and I give you my humble feedback soon.

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Originally Posted by TADutchman

develop two new and original sounding high-quality dual voice presets for every section of the presets list provided by ripe_md.


very good idea and quite big challange...

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