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Our PianoWorld host, Frank B., evidently had no preconceptions when trying out the V-Grand, and liked the sound. Has anyone tried it who has previously played on/used a V-Piano and can compare the two?

I'd guess that if the V-Grand has exactly the same modelling principles as the V-Piano, even if its presets are set more adventurously (like some others, I found that its Vintage presets are too conservative), those who object to the V-Piano's mid-range will still object to those of the V-Grand. If you don't like its sound, you don't like its sound. Incidentally, I've now read 6 different reviews by various people in the media (mainly music magazines, including those aimed at professional musicians) and while there are a few nitpickings, principally concerning its cost and weight, and the odd one about its conservative preset sounds that need customizing to sound like real acoustics, noone found any fault with its midrange.

The V-Piano has 4 speaker connections, each one giving a different sound to provide the illusion of a grand piano cabinet in front of the pianist when set up as Roland explained in its manual. Does the V-Grand have more than 4 speakers?


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really 23 k is a joke why not kill yammi and sell it for less than the avant grand

But i m in love with visual factor. i would really like to have one
just for the how it looks



Does the Roland Rd700NX have a superior piano patch??


anybody else played it?

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Maybe I'm missing something here. Or maybe I'm just stupid. How can anyone complain about the sound of this when you can customize the sound of each and every note?


Ron
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A dealer in the UK has quoted a RRP of 16800GBP for the V Grand thats equivalent to $27K!...why is the price so much lower in other countries? The same goes for the Avantgrand series...much more expensive in the UK...Why?...surely if the manufacturers/dealers had a more realistic price structure they would sell more instruments ( my nearest AG stockist has sold only 5 N2's and 2 N3's since release , hardly volume sales)..


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Originally Posted by rnaple
Maybe I'm missing something here. Or maybe I'm just stupid. How can anyone complain about the sound of this when you can customize the sound of each and every note?


Because in my experience whilst you CAN customize many of the characteristics of each note (brightness/attack/cross resonance etc etc), you CANNOT change its basic, most fundamental tone...that is pre-programmed at the very start by Roland...it is the DNA of the thing and it is beyond the power of the user to alter. If you don't like this pure, underlying tonal information it doesn't matter what you do with the thing because it is always there.

It's like any DNA...take that of a dog. You can selectively breed, you can clone, you can create dogs of extreme appearance and characteristics...but they are all still dogs, they ain't cats - or anything else. The V-Piano is always a V-Piano and people need to accept that its basic tonal signature is intrinsic to everything it does. If you like it - or at least can live with it - then you will be rewarded with (in my opinion) the most dynamic, responsive and accurate playing experience...it is beyond compare in many respects. But it is NOT what Roland promise..."a virtual showroom of concert grands" - because they all have this tonal characteristic in common. It is simply not like playing pianos of different make. So if you don't like its basic underlying tonality, you're f*ck*d!

I know there are others who are probably fed up with reading this and I accept I have been more vocal than others about this issue. But I OWNED a V-Piano. I had the stress and expense of it - the disappointment of discovering that it was not what Roland promised - and the failure of the dealer to sort it out. To Roland's credit they were more receptive to my view than the dealer and a resolution of sorts was found.

I envy V-Piano lovers, I really do...I sincerely wish I was one of them. And I think on that note I will refrain from commenting further on the V-Piano...it is an experience from the past for me and I wish Roland and all current and prospective owners well with it.

Cheers,

Steve

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Originally Posted by rnaple
Maybe I'm missing something here. Or maybe I'm just stupid. How can anyone complain about the sound of this when you can customize the sound of each and every note?


Personally, I think that the V-Piano (and now V-Grand) can only be appreciated to the full when the pianist is prepared to spend time with it and customize it exactly to their liking. I haven't used my V-Piano's factory presets for serious practice for some months, preferring my own several customized settings, and every time I go back to a factory preset, I'm reminded of how much I've altered its sound. Because no other DPs can be customized in this way, I get the feeling that most existing DP users cannot be bothered too much with the hassle of doing this, preferring to play with MIDI files and so on, then feel they're not getting their money's worth when they don't like something about its sound.

When I bought my V-Piano, I had a steep learning curve to go through because it was my first DP, and I don't even own a computer (so can't use one to simplify the customization process). But I knew the sound I wanted in my head, and set about achieving it, though it took me several weeks before I was satisfied. Yet even now, I still haven't got round to customizing single notes. Maybe next year..... grin


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Essbrace, your post was almost simultaneous with mine grin.
I did make a dig at you mainly because you kept referring (in several posts) to the midrange of the V-Piano as a 'fault' that Roland should 'correct', just because you don't like it. I'm surprised that you went the whole hog to buy one and have it in your home, if that's the case.

When I went around auditioning various DPs before settling on the V-Piano, I realized very quickly that all sampled pianos have a 'house sound' which you have to live with, and I knew I couldn't live with the bright, strident Yamaha sound, especially in its midrange. (I'm not keen on acoustic Yamahas either for the very same reason). But I wouldn't call it a fault, and expect Yamaha to 'correct' it - some people like that kind of sound.

The V-Piano was different - even in its raw state, I liked its sound. But with all the customizations I've now got, their resemblance to their parents in many (not all) cases are miniscule. I honestly hear very little resemblance of my Bösendorfer setting to its parent V1 Concert setting, for example (and neither can my friends who've heard them).


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Well I know I said I wouldn't comment about The V again, but...Roland always claimed that V2 was in fact a Bosendorfer, V1 is a Steinway. Apparently.

I played the thing at the store in a very pressured environment. I don't even remember what I thought of its sound but do remember being astounded by its response to velocity...ie, the connection between keys and sound. In this respect it is the best, simple as that. Any misgivings I may have had about the tone was an irrelevance in my mind because, after all, I was buying "a virtual showroom of concert grands"...anything I didn't like I could change, right? Wrong. Ownership proved that to me within quite a short time scale.

Anyway, please post a link to some of your performances...I would love to hear your renditions of some of the famous pianos. I mean that in all sincerity...I would be very happy to be proved wrong. Then I would robustly and publicly retract all negative statements I've made - and I would be happy to do so.

Cheers,

Steve

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In my considerable experience with the v-piano its impossible to correct the thinness of the tonality in the mid ranges. You can do a awful lot with it but your never going to fix it completely. Its possibly THE most disappointing board I've ever played because it promises so much and is so close in so many ways but cannot escape from its weakness.


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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Well I know I said I wouldn't comment about The V again, but...Roland always claimed that V2 was in fact a Bosendorfer, V1 is a Steinway. Apparently.

I played the thing at the store in a very pressured environment. I don't even remember what I thought of its sound but do remember being astounded by its response to velocity...ie, the connection between keys and sound. In this respect it is the best, simple as that. Any misgivings I may have had about the tone was an irrelevance in my mind because, after all, I was buying "a virtual showroom of concert grands"...anything I didn't like I could change, right? Wrong. Ownership proved that to me within quite a short time scale.

Anyway, please post a link to some of your performances...I would love to hear your renditions of some of the famous pianos. I mean that in all sincerity...I would be very happy to be proved wrong. Then I would robustly and publicly retract all negative statements I've made - and I would be happy to do so.

Cheers,

Steve


I thought in fact that V1 was Steinway and V2 Bluthner rather than Bosendorfer - though I believe that Roland was careful not to use actual brand names, in case they get sued...(I can't get any V2 setting to sound remotely like Bosendorfer).

If I ever get myself a computer (maybe Santa might get me one next Christmas grin), I might just post some performances of my various settings here, but I suspect anyone who's already made up their mind won't be swayed either way. I still don't know what MIDI files are... crazy

As for 'thin tone', all you have to do is use the equalizer on those notes that you want to thicken. Over Xmas, that's what I experimented with, and the sound on the (range of) notes you wanted to bring up comes to the forefront and lose any 'thinness', depending on the number of decibels you dial in.

But as I say, if you don't like the sound, you don't like the sound - even if no other experts on DPs can find any fault with it. In fact, some of the magazine reviews commented on how rich-sounding the V-Piano is compared to other DPs. And compared to Yamahas and Casios (I didn't get to try any Kawais), that's certainly the impression I got.


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Originally Posted by bennevis
I still don't know what MIDI files are... crazy


Thats so easy: I earlier times they took paper rolls and punched holes into it and nowadays they take a digital file and punch zeros into it...


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Originally Posted by EssBrace


Anyway, please post a link to some of your performances...I would love to hear your renditions of some of the famous pianos. I mean that in all sincerity...I would be very happy to be proved wrong. Then I would robustly and publicly retract all negative statements I've made - and I would be happy to do so.

Cheers,

Steve


But you'd still hold on to your Nord Piano! wink


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Ah, I see - binary code (011001 etc). I actually learnt to write computer programs using binary code at one stage (when I was still young and handsome). Fat lot of good it did me........


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Oh yes, Nord is going nowhere!

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Originally Posted by bennevis

As for 'thin tone', all you have to do is use the equalizer on those notes that you want to thicken.


That absolutely will not solve the problem. Just ask folks that owned it and dumped it!

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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
That absolutely will not solve the problem. Just ask folks that owned it and dumped it!


I am not so sure I'd call it a "problem", I don't see people that, say, don't like the Steingraeber sound say that "Steingraeber has a problem", they are more polite and just say that sound is not their cup of tea.

I am not sure why people can't use the same level of politeness when discussing DP tonalities. As much as we can all dissect quantitatively if a DP has stretch, looping, ... when it comes to sound quality some people like cake, other people like pie, and just because you happen to like cake it doesn't mean that pies have a "problem".

If the VPiano/VGrand had a "problem" EVERYBODY would be returning them, given that there appear to be plenty of satisfied customers around evidently this "problem" is more along the lines of "not my cup of tea sonically".

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In Spain it is retailing at 16800€ from a RRP of 19852€.

http://www.rolandplanetmadrid.com/fichas_producto.asp?modelo=GP-7-PE


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Originally Posted by MarcoM


If the VPiano/VGrand had a "problem" EVERYBODY would be returning them, given that there appear to be plenty of satisfied customers around evidently this "problem" is more along the lines of "not my cup of tea sonically".



The problem is when its modeling "pie" and it doesn't taste anything like "pie" should and when its modeling "cake" it doesn't taste like "cake" or more specifically the "middle" of the pie/cake tastes nothing like the real thing.

No its a bit more serious then a "not my cup of tea" issue. Rather it is a technical issue with the modeling sound engine being that its unfaithful to the true tonality of the pianos its attempting to model in the mid ranges. Its unfixable within the piano itself regardless of fiddling.

I think you'd be shocked at the high return rate of the V-piano and also its sales , Yamaha's technically inferior CP1 outsells it by a huge margin.








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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
I think you'd be shocked at the high return rate of the V-piano and also its sales , Yamaha's technically inferior CP1 outsells it by a huge margin.


I am assuming you have black-on-white numbers for this? something that can be independently verified? If not I suggest you retract your statement as it'd be more in the realm of innuendo and FUD. (not to mention that comparing the CP1 to the V is apples/oranges as they are targeted definitely at different users due to action and onboard sounds).

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I don't think they're targeted at very different users at all...there is considerable overlap I think. It would be interesting to know how many forum regulars own, or have owned, V-Pianos. We know of two that have returned them. I'm only really aware of a couple of other regulars on here with V-Pianos (who seem very happy with them)...but that would make a 50% return ratio on the forum...not a great reflection on the piano to be honest...totally unscientific I appreciate that.

Steve

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