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Will the ivory touch coating still be on the keys at the end of day 4?

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Of course it will...it'll survive at least until the end of the three month US parts/labour warranty!

Recent users are reporting that the ivory surface on the FP-7F and RD-NX looks paler/smoother than the original stuff they used...hopefully they have solved this problem once and for all otherwise Roland may end up carrying this reputation for years. It's very short-sighted of them not to have got to grips with this the moment problems were first reported on the earliest RD-GX.

Steve

Last edited by EssBrace; 01/13/11 02:42 PM. Reason: spelling!
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Personally as incredible of an instrument the V-Piano Grand appears to be, and surely is, I think it deserves the PHA III w/ real wooden grand piano keys. Any one know what the price of this beast will be?


Kawai MP7SE w/ GFP-3
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Yes, I wondered about the price...for some reason I assume it will undercut the AG N3.

And I also agree with Zachary about the keys...if there was ever a time for Roland to up their game in terms of keys, this is it. I don't mean about key ACTION necessarily...I think the Rolands with PHA-II or III feel very nice, but in terms of MATERIALS. It seems a bit cheap and nasty to be all plastic, especially at what is likely to be a very high price. It's Kawai's achievement...to associate wood with quality and this is slowly changing customer expectations - which is ironic given that Kawai's most renowned AP actions contain numerous plastic parts. Roland used to make all wood actions with long pivoted keys so this kind of thing would not be completely alien to them. Better still would be some tie-up with an AP maker to design something so Roland could really compete with the specialised Yamaha grand actions in the AG. As good as PHA actions are, they are no match for the AG.

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It really looks big, almost too big. I would assume it has an excellent sound system.


Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
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So much for my hopes of a V-Piano Lite (smaller, lighter, cheaper), at least for this year. Roland went the other way!

Last edited by dje31; 01/13/11 04:42 PM.

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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
It really looks big, almost too big. I would assume it has an excellent sound system.


I would assume that the v-grand is aimed towards the people that up to now would consider only an N3 (modern piano shaped object), for people for whom space is at a premium the v-piano is still available (and smaller than an N1).

It will be definitely interesting how things shape up, the VGrand is definitely superior to the N3 in terms of synthesis (modelling vs usual layered samples, although some people do appear to dislike the Roland "sound") and now it will be for sure at least comparable in terms of looks and amplification.

Would be nice to listen to the new VG models and see how they stack up compared to the VP, it will also be interesting to know who is going to sell the VG: is it going to be available through the usual mass-market retailers? If so that would definitely be an advantage for Roland in terms of market penetration/availability (although since I've never seen the C30 harpsichord anywhere maybe it won't be the case...)

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Yes, who is going to sell them, and significantly, to whom will they sell them? I'd have to see one to really decide about its appearance but I think the Yamaha AG N3 is a successful piece of work aesthetically...it has the aura and presence of a grand piano but is sufficiently different to have its own identity. Also, its physical profile to my mind hints at its more modern innards - ie, it's digital. I'm not sure the Roland is quite as well conceived physically. And it is too big...5' long is the same as the smallest workable grand. The N3 is just that bit smaller, usefully so for people with space constraints.

Rumours abound that the V-Piano is not selling well, so maybe it is heartening that Roland thinks there's a market for the V-Grand. Good luck to them.

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I think you got it right Steve.
I don't understand why they needed to make the V-Grand so "grand"? I would have thought a V piano in a nice upright cabinet would have attracted more people.

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Originally Posted by altrent
I don't understand why they needed to make the V-Grand so "grand"? I would have thought a V piano in a nice upright cabinet would have attracted more people.


I don't see why they couldn't have a v-upright as well, after all Yamaha has the N2 and the N3, the V-Grand is obviously the flagship, but depending on how it sells they might of course add another model in-between... on the other hand people that want to use less space can just go for the vpiano and use headphones, I don't think there is a significant % of the market that wants something small *AND* wants to use speakers most of the time, it seems more either-or...

BTW, here is the first v-grand video I've seen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z273sHTybgc

I assume more videos will come out, on the other hand given that the focus of the VG is the cabinet/speakers it's probably one of those products where you need to check it out in person...

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I learned the list for the V-grand is 23k. I was looking for a deal on the V-piano and was misunderstand, and was given that as a list on the grand.

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Originally Posted by Nikalette
I learned the list for the V-grand is 23k.


If that's true I'm going to make fun of anybody who buys one.

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My guess is that these will probably end up in churches, hotel lobby bars, and other commercial / non-consumer environs, moreso than residential homes, recording studios, etc.


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Originally Posted by drexel
Originally Posted by Nikalette
I learned the list for the V-grand is 23k.


If that's true I'm going to make fun of anybody who buys one.


there's plenty of people around (not me, I wish) for whom buying a 23k v-grand would be like for a normal person buying a crappy upright for $500 off craigslist, from my perspective I hope they sell plenty of them so they'll continue innovating and have these innovations trickle down to products a bit more in the "normal person" price range...

On the other hand Roland gear has never been known for being cheap usually but it sure seems built to last, so if the VGrand really sounds good one could make a case for it, and IMHO a much stronger case than for an avant-grand which is still using samples after all and is not even remotely as customizable.

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Originally Posted by MarcoM
Originally Posted by drexel
Originally Posted by Nikalette
I learned the list for the V-grand is 23k.


If that's true I'm going to make fun of anybody who buys one.


there's plenty of people around (not me, I wish) for whom buying a 23k v-grand would be like for a normal person buying a crappy upright for $500 off craigslist, from my perspective I hope they sell plenty of them so they'll continue innovating and have these innovations trickle down to products a bit more in the "normal person" price range...

The retailer who told me that was the list was also offering to sell it for $14k...before freight.

Which just goes to show that you should never pay list.

Anyway, I'm just weighing my options. V-regular, FP7F, or even thinking about the V-grand.

I like the feel and sound of Rolands way better than anything but Kawai. I've never even tried a Kawai DP because of the horrible experience I had buying a vintage Knabe grand from our local Kawai retailer.

I just know when I went to the Yamaha dealer and tried all their keyboards, the one I liked was an older Roland.



On the other hand Roland gear has never been known for being cheap usually but it sure seems built to last, so if the VGrand really sounds good one could make a case for it, and IMHO a much stronger case than for an avant-grand which is still using samples after all and is not even remotely as customizable.

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14k seems a lot more in line for something meant to compete with the N3

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I could accept 23k msrp but it would need to have real wooden non thumpy action and real wood furniture. If there is any significant particle board or veneers its just an insult to the buyer.

It doens't matter how state of the art the sound engine and electronics are. Like all electronics in a short time it will be superceded and what can not go "old" would at least be the construction quality.

Last edited by Art A.; 01/14/11 01:41 AM.
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The price point will be critical...at this rumoured list price you could buy a decent grand and if you chose wisely it would be the last piano you ever bought. I know the V-Piano is perhaps more insulated from instant obsolescence due to its tone generation and updatability (assuming Roland will support that) but a DP at that sort of price is starting to look simply too expensive.

Steve

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I don't know why anyone would assume that wood is superior to plastic for the keys. For the cabinet, yes, if the sound requires resonance from speakers within the cabinet. What's important for the keys is that they should feel positive and entirely natural under the fingers when playing, and to me they feel just that - not because of the plastic used, but because of the overall action. (I didn't even realize that the V-Piano has plastic keys until several weeks after I bought it, when I was cleaning the keys and thought the brown 'wood' looked rather shiny....)

Larry Fine in his Piano Book mentions how people were snooty about Kawai's use of plastic in their acoustic grands, when there was actually no difference in playing terms, and in fact is an advantage in durability and resistance to environmental factors like humidity and temperature. And the last thing I expect from a DP is keys that start sticking when it gets humid..

As for the cost, I don't see how the V-Grand can compete with Yamaha's N3: classical pianists (who will probably be the main customers for such an instrument) will need a lot of convincing that an electronic instrument manufacturer can make a decent stimulation of a purely mechanical instrument. On the Pianoworld Forum, I think I'm the only purely classical pianist (brought up on acoustics) to own a V-Piano. Many people over in the Piano section wouldn't touch a DP with a barge pole, and already have preconceptions of DPs despite never having tried a V-Piano......


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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