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#1436529 05/14/10 02:25 PM
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Hi all,

in the past I was not very impressed regarding the sound of Pianoteq. Since I now for some weeks have Pianoteq (although the rather old version 2.3) on my Netbook I tried several times to improve the overall sound quality to my likings. And now it seems like I have found a sound setting that, well, does not satify me 100%, but it has very good playability.

My setup for Pianoteq is as simply as possible:

- Asus EePC 1005H which was only 200 USD in the US (last year about 140 Euro)
- USB-Cable to connect to the CA63 USB-to-host port (will be auto-detected by Win7)
- Cinch-Cable from Headphone-out to CA63 Line-In (very important: using a NF Noise Filter for 5 Euro to completely eliminate noise)
- Pianoteq 2.3 (used)
- ASIO4all

So for roundabout 150 Euro plus Pianoteq license I was able to build a lightweight Audiosystem that is very easy to install on top of my DP and sounds amazing through CA63 internal speakers.

I still love the internal sound of CA63 and mostly play with internal Concert Grand 1, but from time to time I also prefer the still somehow artificial sounding Pianoteq sound, but with very nice long decays, nice damper resonance and string simulation. It's very playable, no noticeable latency, like the internal DP.

The sound is very different, so I would like to share it with you and ask for any comments, what sounds better to you. It' a little demo song I played both on CA63 (some weeks ago) and Pianoteq (today). Unfortunately it's not exactly the same interpretation, but in my view it doesn't make sense to record a MIDI with playing a specific instrument and replay it with another instrument, because I adapt my playing style depending on what instrument I'm playing.

Here are the two demo songs:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ojtmgvdzy1g/Heilig-CA63.mp3
http://www.mediafire.com/file/zmumzmj2xnw/Heilig-Pianoteq-23.mp3

I'm not quite sure what to prefer...


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
mucci #1436552 05/14/10 02:57 PM
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What Pianoteq tembre you use?
When I hear Pianoteq sound I found my position like position inside piano, what some strange


DP: Korg Sp-250,Pianoteq 5.x, TruePianos 1.9x;
Grand piano: Blutner, Muhlbach, Yamaha, iRig Pro;
Upright: Kalujanka;
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Here's the Pianoteq sound setting I used (remember, it's for v2.3), along with the MIDI-File, you can try for yourself:



I'm sorry I haven't tried the setting with headphones, just with loudspeakers (you have a specific setting for that in Pianoteq).


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
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Well, they sound similar, but I think the settings you've chosen for Pianoteq make it a little more crisp, and make the decay longer. (Maybe reduce the hammer hardness for high strikes, slightly reduce the soundboard impedance and Quadratic effect, and experiment with the mics?) I'm not sure the tuning is the same in both instruments, too.

In any case, I would go ahead and download the latest PianoTeq. All of the revisions have been free. (Excepting the pro version, which adds much, much more control.) The sound has changed and there have been new, free pianos included with each major revision--the M3 and the K1. The latest version has been optimized to work with Netbooks, too.

Last edited by Jake Jackson; 05/15/10 11:20 AM.
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Thanks Jake for the tipps! I'm not yet familiar with all the settings in Pianoteq, it's like a lot of music theory.

And thanks for the update info, I didn't know that all updates are for free!

BTW, I like the long decay of the Pianoteq, you can't change this for CA63.

Last edited by mucci; 05/14/10 03:34 PM.

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Well, the CA63 sounds better. But there are certainly some things missing in the sound that Pianoteq has. On the other hand, the tone in Pianoteq is really awful and synthetic in some places. You need to cough up the money for a new version. smile

Ole

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Ole, you're right, it's really a pity with Pianoteq: Sometimes I think I really begin to like the sound, but then again, it sounds so "plastic" / synthetic to my ears that it almost hurts... frown

Somehow I need to find a setup that really pleases my ears. I'll check for the newest version soon, but maybe someone here has a sound patch that goes into the "Kawai" direction... Please!


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Originally Posted by Ole Laursen
Well, the CA63 sounds better. But there are certainly some things missing in the sound that Pianoteq has. On the other hand, the tone in Pianoteq is really awful and synthetic in some places. You need to cough up the money for a new version. smile

Ole


I agree that the CA63 labeled MP3 sounds better.

If you own a legal, paid-for, registered copy of Pianoteq, then you are automatically sent emails offering you to automatically download and install the free updates from your online user area. The latest version 3.6 is night and day different from 2.3... the only reason I can think for someone to be using 2.3 is because that was the only torrent they could find.


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Thanks for that! I love you theJourney. I got it used only recently from a friend who no longer use it but still need to register / move the license to me. I'll work it out with them. On the other side I'm not really 100% happy with it...

Edit: I just searched for Pianoteq on Torrent and found 3.5.1 as the newest available version. That much for your suspect! tiki

Last edited by mucci; 05/14/10 04:13 PM.

<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
mucci #1436623 05/14/10 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mucci
Thanks for that! I love you theJourney. I got it used only recently from a friend who no longer use it but still need to register / move the license to me. I'll work it out with them. On the other side I'm not really 100% happy with it...


Well, I think it is one of the few pieces of software I have ever bought that I actually have not regretted buying one iota. It is very good value considering what it does and what it costs. Whatever you think of the consistent realism of its timbre, it is uniquely playable and a helluva lot of fun to fool around with.

You might want to decide what you are going to do with the version you have borrowed so as to avoid being in violation of copyright law. Also, you might want to run Anti Malware software to make sure that you haven't been infected with some nasty trojan horses in case your friend has been vague about where he procured his copy. There are a lot of dangerous things floating around the internet.

Oh, and I love you too. You are one of my pianoworld mates.
God bless you and your CA63 too.

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Okay, theJourney, I hate to say this but I have to apologize, you were right. The version 2.3 I got was not kosher, it's not registered. Now I know why it gave me an error message on every start. Nice "friends". So I'm back at quare one after deleting it from my harddrive.

I downloaded the demo version 3.6 today and played the same piece with the new K1 piano sound (obviously with some notes missing due to demo mode). It still doesn't convince me completely though. What do others think?

http://www.mediafire.com/file/a1gymnzz10k/Heilig-Pianoteq-36-demo.mp3


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
mucci #1437093 05/15/10 09:47 AM
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You still may want to download this and run it to make sure your little escapade didn't leave you infected with something nasty:

http://download.cnet.com/Malwarebytes-Anti-Malware/3000-8022_4-10804572.html

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Mucci, it's a little bit offtopic but how do you find the sound quality of CA63 when using the line ins? I am asking that because I am buying mine for the keyboard and the powerful internal speakers and I expect to use it with Ivory which I really love unless the internal sound is playable enough to make me change my mind.


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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It's just running while I type this...


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
mucci #1437114 05/15/10 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mucci
Okay, theJourney, I hate to say this but I have to apologize, you were right. The version 2.3 I got was not kosher, it's not registered. Now I know why it gave me an error message on every start. Nice "friends". So I'm back at quare one after deleting it from my harddrive.

I downloaded the demo version 3.6 today and played the same piece with the new K1 piano sound (obviously with some notes missing due to demo mode). It still doesn't convince me completely though. What do others think?

http://www.mediafire.com/file/a1gymnzz10k/Heilig-Pianoteq-36-demo.mp3


Have you rendered your original CA63 midi with pianoteq or have you played it live recording through pianoteq?

mucci #1437118 05/15/10 10:10 AM
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@CyberGene, the sound quality of the input (the big plugs where the gain is adjustable) is exceptional. It all depends on your soundcard and of course the quality of the software samples.


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Originally Posted by theJourney

Have you rendered your original CA63 midi with pianoteq or have you played it live recording through pianoteq?


It's all rendered within Pianoteq with setting high quality.To be precise: I recorded my live playing with Pianoteq and afterwards saved it with "export to wave". But playing the rendered piece through the CA63 internal speakers doesn't sound different to playing live (as far as I can tell).


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
mucci #1437129 05/15/10 10:22 AM
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So you were playing pianoteq live? I thought that the tone was improved but I still preferred your CA63 version.

The reason I was asking is because the pedalling on the pianoteq version sounded a bit muddier -- like if you were used to playing on a piano with shorter sustain and hadn't dried up your pedalling yet on the one with longer sustain. Also, the rubato and phrasing seemed to be better executed on the CA63 version, like you were more in intimate contact with the instrument. You might want to experiment with the velocity curve to actually match up pianoteq to the CA63 keyboard and then play your new CA63+pianoteq keyboard more with your ears to make the necessary adjustments to your new instrument. See this thread for more details:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=1203

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I also recognized the muddier sound on pianoteq due to the very long decays. It's very much like on a real acoustic, I have to get used to this. Maybe that's the reason why I played this piece intuitively slower than the CA63 version. But still there is something missing.

anyway, I need to understand better the different tweaks and settings, I recognized that there are a trillion possibilities to adjust the sound. Maybe I'm getting to it, who knows! Now that I'm back to quare one it's a full 249 Euro to pay for it. That's not much compared to the CA63 investment, but still I need to be sure I will really like and play it before I take this investment.


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
mucci #1437137 05/15/10 10:46 AM
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@theJourney, thank God no malware was found by the software you recommended. Thanks.


<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>
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