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#1401547 03/22/10 07:48 PM
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I met a piano guy today who when I mentioned my interest in the Yamaha P22 he said that isn't the direction I should want to go in. He said that because there are plastics within the action, and these could harden with age and that they would break before long.

He might have been steering me away from Yamaha because he didn't sell those.

I also was interested in the P22 because its an institutional model and I expect it would last longer and be tougher... a good choice for having a good piano for a long time. {?}

Does anyone know if it is true that Yamaha uses plastics in the actions where wood would be more appropriate?

Thanks for checking in...

-J



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Plastic parts argument is a poor argument. Early plastics did have problems, but not in a very long time. The P22 has been a good school model for a long time, though I am less enthusiastic about the most recent ones. It has nothing to do with plastic.

As far as school models go, many brands make them all with (very nearly) the same school specs but with a variety of sounds. If you like the idea, try the similar model from Kawai, Story & Clark, Kohler & Campbell, Hailun or if you can spend a little more, Charles Walter. That way you'll know if it is the Yamaha you like or just the idea. There is a good chance it will confirm your opinion.

I really like the sound of the older Everett Studios (school model). There are some of those still around that we see from time to time.


Sam Bennett
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I thought it was Kawai that used plastic? Anyhow, don't believe ANYTHING a competitor of an instrument you are looking at says...including PianoWorksATL who has to sell against them all the time.

Pray tell, PianoWorksATL, what is it you don't like about the modern P22's?


Choleric
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Yamaha uses plastic part for its upright action because that wooden part kept breaking off. They have been doing it a long time now. Don't get sucked into these bad sales tactics. Just shop somewhere else.

The only thing I've ever heard from a technician that even slightly negative about the P22 is that they are harder to tune than the T118, T121, U1, etc. But you don't care about that, unless you are going to tune your own piano.

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Yamaha has had plastic jacks and letoff buttons in its upright pianos since 1960. They have proven to be lighter and stronger than the more traditional wood part. The rest of the action is traditional in materials and design. The P22 institutional model is one of the most successful of it type of all time.


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They both use platic which is another reason why it is a poor argument.

choleric,

From my point of view, Yamaha's top series of production pianos, the C-series and the U-series have slowly but steadily improved over time. However, I feel their other lines have been affected by pricing pressures. The new P22 is good and solid, but in this case, what I have seen and the feedback from techs in the field is a preference for the older pianos that bear the same model names. This seems obvious within the M-series and more subtle in the P22.

This has allowed competitors to catch up to what has been a very successful piano for Yamaha. The competitive offerings from other brands will still offer what the OP requested, to "last longer and be tougher" with a variety of choices. As I said, trying other brands will help him confirm if it is the P22 or just that style of piano that is his preference.

I rarely have to sell "against" a piano, but I often have to show that brand X isn't the only good choice so that the pianos are evaluated fairly. I read school bids that are literally cut & pasted from Yamaha's website things like "V-pro" plate, become specs that exclude viable choices because it is too hard to educate a school board committee that sand cast is just as good (or in actuality better than) brand X, Y or Z's. Baldwin did this for years before Yamaha. I just like fair competition.


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Originally Posted by Marty Flinn
The P22 institutional model is one of the most successful of it type of all time.


I believe it got their by being very good, by competing hard. My question is...does the model still deserve preferred status and priority in so many bids? Other brands are now competing very hard, perhaps harder than that Yamaha model.


Sam Bennett
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Thanks for helping me folks,

PianoWorksATL, thanks, I have only been shopping around for a little while so I've basically been scoping things out based on what is available locally. Nearby, I asked the first dealer in an email if he was going to have Story and Clark uprights to replace the other models he was selling but he never got back to me. I suppose if I get closer to being able to show my true/realistic intention of buying a piano he'd be happy to order one, but I do wish I could magically try out any piano by any maker at will!

The place I visited today had a lot of inexpensive pianos, mostly used, and most of the grands were actually under 10k which suprised me. That never occured to me a grand could be cheap like that. But I'm more seriously looking for an upright.

I've played an Everett upright that was in a practice room and didn't dislike it. I like a lot of pianos, and I like the name at least. Getting a used piano is attractive because of price. But breaking in my own action and having a brand new piano would be awesome.

If there was a dealer who carried Charles Walter nearby I would definitely consider waiting and expanding my sights in that direction, because I think American made would be really nice to own. In fact if I had my choice I would get a C.W. or a Bluthner, based off of the uprights and my initial reaction to web shopping.

In fact I just looked up and found a dealer within distance that has C.W.

The search continues...

-J


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P22's are great upright pianos. Can't necessarily knock 'em for the plastic components either. Those that were built to land in North America don't have issues of those parts becoming brittle and disintegrating.

BUT, pianoATL makes a good point. Back 15 years ago (+/-), it would have been difficult to find many others to compete with the P22 then. What seems to have happened is Yamaha got content while others got determined. Now, as good, maybe better pianos, are being built and offer a much better value and at more affordable prices.
Competition obviously exists. Especially for new piano makers (Fazioli, Hailun) and those with new designs (Kawai Millenium action, etc). Do these brands deserve notice? Of course, and those dealers that try to undermine that fact should be taken with a grain of salt. Maybe a whole shaker full. smile


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